12 Apostles

[Faith101]

Ghosty:

Akanke was actually supporting you and your thread. Faith101 was once again trying to drag their misunderstanding of the Trinity into the discussion, so Akanke was posting a quote by you to support the intention of your thread

i was not trying to drag something that wasnt part of the conversation into it.

we wouldnt have any disagreements if you just stated “they recieved their faith/blessings/strength from God” but when you say holy spirit…first thing i think of is trinity. I’ll try to refrain to bring up this topic at all…its hard since its the basis of your faith…but inshAllah, i’ll try

 

[hawk]

Faith101:

you say “trinity” = 3. i dont to get into a debate about this again. but you cant deny that you say 3 (in whatever wording)

Indeed we say three, that does not mean we divide God in any way.

We neither subtract from the power of God, nor do we add to the power of God.

The Trinity is one entity, one in spirit, in knowing, in power, in intention.

This is how the One God revealed himself to us, we are not in any position to deny this.

Read the letter of St. Peter, Muslims love to blame Paul, but the letters of Peter also emphasize the divinity of Christ.

And go so far as to say, why would we make up something so complicated, we beleive this simply because Our Lord God revealed himself thus to us.

It is interesting that Muslims even have to deny that it is the 12 apostles that Jesus had, that are spoken of in the Quran as helpers, are not the same that the Christians know and love.

This is because they invalidate the Quran, by their own testimony

 

[Reuben_J]

iamrefreshed:

Hello Reuben. As a Catholic I have a hard time comparing the Apostles with people who actively seek their death for a cause. The Apostles did not actively seek their death. I’m fairly certain they would have rather lived and continue preaching the teachings of Jesus.

My point in the thread was to show the difference in the Apostles before and after the Crucifixion and Ressurection.

They went from cowering men scared for their own lives one moment to men willing to die for the same cause the next.

I think that this transformation in them is as near to earthly evidence of the Ressurection as you will find.

Hi Iamrefreshed.

You and I can’t compare the apostles and them. It’s like the heaven above and the earth below. I’ve explained the post-Pentecost transformations to a Muslim, but it didn’t registered. To us of course this is the action of God, how else can we explain it. And many of us experience this transformation today, the degree though may vary on each individual. Looking at your acronymn, Iamrefreshed, I guess I won’t be wrong if I say that you yourself have a story to tell about your experience with the Holy Spirit. And God bless you for that.

Another important point to bear in mind regarding this subject is the action of the Holy Spirit on the Apsotles/Disciples that inspired them to write the Bible. Muslims make a big deal that the NT is written by followers of Jesus after many years had passed, instead of Jesus Himself. If they appreciate the action of the Holy Spirit, they would be in awe at this miracle! But are they impressed? Decidedly no. Because it’s not in the Quran. And if it’s in the Quran, you need to bang your head a few times against the bricks because no matter what you say they (some of them; not all of them) will not understand you. Do you experience this here with them?

Peace.

Reuben.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

This thread seems to have become a circuitous discussion among those who support the original poster’s premise. Thanks to all who participated. The thread is now closed.

Joe Monahan