17-year old takes on pro-choice adult

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I recently spent two hours discussing pro-life and marriage teachings with a pro-choice mother of my debating partner (she was for abortion, divorce, euthanasia, etc). We were on a road trip to a significant tournament in Montreal. My debating partner was shocked that I (a 17 year old) was discussing sex, abortion, and contraception with her mother. The conversation was… meant to be, I suppose I’ll say. Later a friend of mine, listening from the backseat, and very “pro-choice” told me I sounded confident and reasonable, while the mother sounded frantic and very defensive. I take that as meaning the Holy Spirit was definitely with me!

One thing struck me though… I can usually remain very calm during a discussion like that, however I was very disturbed with one thing she said, (I almost cried a few times, she’s a nurse, and she was telling me how she gave “advice” to her patients, pointing out Catholic patients who decided to have abortions) she said that “what the eye cannot see to laugh over, it cannot see to cry over”… I was shocked. Is anyone else disgusted by this?

She also told me that what disturbed her most was that one so young was so set in her opinions (I wanted to say “morality” to clarify). and that I’d probably end up doing something against them, and then feel guilty about it… I told her that having strong convictions help during times of difficulty… The idea isn’t to change opinions whenever it’s most convenient…

Anyway- it was quite a discussion… and I admit I was teased a fair deal over the weekend… That’s what happens when you’re in an intellectual circle of people… The only thing that really annoys me is presumptions people make… “Mary won’t like that- she’s Catholic”… “Mary doesn’t know about that, Catholics never talk about sex” (what could be farther from the truth eh?)

Anyway! Any similiar experiences… or thoughts… 🙂
 
Mary, No similar experiences here, but let me affirm you and may God bless you for your conviction and respect for life. Young adults like you make a huge difference in this world! It’s very refreshing to see and a reflection of your integrity and upbringing.

Bob Cook
KofC Council 10850
 
I think the statement the mother made was disgusting. And I wouldn’t want her for a nurse. Anyone that has so little feeling I wouldn’t want to take care of me while I was hurting.
 
Thank you for taking the stand you did…
It makes me proud to hear a young person respond as you did…
God Bless you
 
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Mary:
I recently spent two hours discussing pro-life and marriage teachings with a pro-choice mother of my debating partner (she was for abortion, divorce, euthanasia, etc). We were on a road trip to a significant tournament in Montreal. My debating partner was shocked that I (a 17 year old) was discussing sex, abortion, and contraception with her mother. The conversation was… meant to be, I suppose I’ll say. Later a friend of mine, listening from the backseat, and very “pro-choice” told me I sounded confident and reasonable, while the mother sounded frantic and very defensive. I take that as meaning the Holy Spirit was definitely with me!

One thing struck me though… I can usually remain very calm during a discussion like that, however I was very disturbed with one thing she said, (I almost cried a few times, she’s a nurse, and she was telling me how she gave “advice” to her patients, pointing out Catholic patients who decided to have abortions) she said that “what the eye cannot see to laugh over, it cannot see to cry over”… I was shocked. Is anyone else disgusted by this?

She also told me that what disturbed her most was that one so young was so set in her opinions (I wanted to say “morality” to clarify). and that I’d probably end up doing something against them, and then feel guilty about it… I told her that having strong convictions help during times of difficulty… The idea isn’t to change opinions whenever it’s most convenient…

Anyway- it was quite a discussion… and I admit I was teased a fair deal over the weekend… That’s what happens when you’re in an intellectual circle of people… The only thing that really annoys me is presumptions people make… “Mary won’t like that- she’s Catholic”… “Mary doesn’t know about that, Catholics never talk about sex” (what could be farther from the truth eh?)

Anyway! Any similiar experiences… or thoughts… 🙂
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Well done your reward will be great in Heaven. The Church values people like you enormously.
 
what the eye cannot see to laugh over, it cannot see to cry over"…
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You didn’t sate if they were christian or not, but if they were… since when can God be seen? His works, perhaps, but He?
 
Mary, you obviously have more maturity, and wisdom then some people quite older than you. You sound like you did a wonderful job. What the mother said was wrong, and says a lot… God bless you.
 
We always have such discussions in R.E class, our teacher encourages to look at all aspects of the situation and it regulary results in quite heated debates.
I personally do not believe in abortion but in some cases I find myself failing to make an opinion at all between what is right or wrong. Somebody very dear to me had an abortion, at that time she was in a very bad situation where she had very little money. She was also suffering from depression and her marriage was breaking down while she still struggled to cope with the child she already had. She honestly believed that it was wrong to bring a child into the world as she thought she had nothing to offer it, that what she did was out of love. I find it difficult to condemn her for that.
 
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Mary:
…she’s a nurse, and she was telling me how she gave “advice” to her patients, pointing out Catholic patients who decided to have abortions) she said that “what the eye cannot see to laugh over, it cannot see to cry over”… I was shocked. Is anyone else disgusted by this?
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All the more reason that abortion clinics and those who “counsel” women seeking abortion should be required to sono gram the child in the womb so that the women can SEE what she will cry over.

It is a “shame” that such insentive and uncaring people should be able to be in the position to “counsel” women at such a crucial time.
 
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Harriet:
She honestly believed that it was wrong to bring a child into the world as she thought she had nothing to offer it, that what she did was out of love. I find it difficult to condemn her for that.
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She could have offered the child to another couple to raise. Many couples here in the US go through foreign adoptions because the wait for a baby is so long and expensive. When my husband and I were going through the adoption process we read that England only allows less than 2% of adoptions to be from foreign countries. More than 10% of married couples go through infertility. I’m not trying to make you feel bad here, but your friends baby would have life and have been loved by two people who want nothing more than to have a baby (I know, I’ve been there). She may have even arranged for yearly pictures and updates or even an “open adoption” with the adopting couple. There is never a good excuse for abortion.
 
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Harriet:
We always have such discussions in R.E class, our teacher encourages to look at all aspects of the situation and it regulary results in quite heated debates.
I personally do not believe in abortion but in some cases I find myself failing to make an opinion at all between what is right or wrong. Somebody very dear to me had an abortion, at that time she was in a very bad situation where she had very little money. She was also suffering from depression and her marriage was breaking down while she still struggled to cope with the child she already had. She honestly believed that it was wrong to bring a child into the world as she thought she had nothing to offer it, that what she did was out of love. I find it difficult to condemn her for that.
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I can understand you empathy for your friend. I have read the “it is better for the child that it not be born” excuse. I am sure that on the surface your friend thought she was doing the right thing for her child. But, is killing someone ever the answer to the problems that she had? A better way she could have shown “love” for her pre-born child would have been putting it up for adoption.

Abortion does not = Love

I find it hard to believe that anyone would equate abortion with love.

You do not have to condemn your friend for her decision. She has to come to terms with God in her own time. I hope that she can.
 
I find it difficult to condemn her for that.
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No condemning. 😦 One thing this woman mentioned was that “No one in the church or home town where [a single, pregnant woman] she is from would accept her. Do you honestly think they’d accept her?”

I argued that that statement was unfair. Many many communities are very supportive. (Rachel project anyone?) It’s often an individual who is set on condemning others and ignoring the log that blocks their own eye from seeing who causes problem. These people are far and few between. In the eyes of God all our false piety will be washed away. Instead of condemning, we must seek to feel compassion, especially towards those who are in times of trouble. That doesn’t mean, however, that we support someone who is planning on having an abortion. Distinction between the two is essential!
 
to set the time frame correctly Ill state Im 36 now. when I was 11 ulrasound technology had just come out. and so did the movie the silent scream, which was an ultrasound of an abortion. I saw it just after it came out. at that time my parents had a playroom for me, which I had a am car radio powered by a car battery charger, because of the antenna I had connected to the radio I was able to listen to far away stations in clear at nite. I live in grand rapids michigan, this particuler nite I was listening to a talk show on wcky in cincinnatti ohio. the guest was from planned parenthood, and he was basically hard for any caller to beat in any type of debate…I was getting tired of it. with mom’s permission I called the show, when I got on the air I stated I saw the silent scream, and how the ultrasound showed the baby trying to get away from the instrument that was going to kill it, and said I find that pretty discusting myself. the guest couldnt come up with anything to answer what I said, the host who had been neutral during the show said he kinda had to agree with what I saw, and there were a avalanche of callers after me who heard my call, and said " yah what about what the kid said?" (me) back then I had a voice that had kid written allover it also, so there was no mistaken me for a teen of an adult. after a few call after me I was saying to myself “wow a kid like me can make them look like fools”. that was my first thing I ever did to defend the right to life issue, and I may have slowed up from time to time depending on how much is on my plate at a givin time, but I have never stopped my quest to protect the unborn. and will never stop till abortion is safely illegal, or Im pushing up daisies. but on the other hand if Im pushing up daisies dont put it past me totally to do something to help right to life from the grave. thats my story, one of the very few things Im proud of in my life, just thought Id share it with anyone interested. tell the 17 yearold good going, and keep it up!
 
Keep it up! I’m also a 17 year old, I often end up defending the faith because I go to a “non-denominational” high school. I am pretty much the lone Catholic voice in my class.

I will say that many in our generation are turning out much better than the early 90’s generations, our generation is going to clean up the mess left for us, I am sure of that.
 
aspawloski4th ,
I think what you said is amirable…Its so good that young people get envolved like you and you’ve kept it up. I am pro life and try to do what I can…but I don’t think I would have been as brave as you at 11.

God Bless you and our 17 year old for being so strong…and helping unborn children.
 
I’ve read the threads - you young people are awesome, no wonder NARAL is scared that they may not have influence over the next generation!
There is one issue I am very emotional about, and that is Fetal Pain. See www.nrlc.org for their factsheet on the excruciating pain felt by babies during 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions. At that stage, the pain receptors are fully developed but the natural pain inhibitors are not, so twisting off their arms and legs as is done in a D&E, or driving a sharp instrument into the brain as is done in a D&X (partial birth abortion) is even MORE PAINFUL than it would be for a born person. It just shows how completely evil abortion is, and how women and girls are duped into abortion. Anesthetic for mother does little or nothing for the unfortunate infant.
Another horrifying fact is that abortion providers are NOT concerned with fetal pain.
Please call your elected representatives, or do something to get the truth out.
mairegal
 
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Harriet:
We always have such discussions in R.E class, our teacher encourages to look at all aspects of the situation and it regulary results in quite heated debates.
I personally do not believe in abortion but in some cases I find myself failing to make an opinion at all between what is right or wrong. Somebody very dear to me had an abortion, at that time she was in a very bad situation where she had very little money. She was also suffering from depression and her marriage was breaking down while she still struggled to cope with the child she already had. She honestly believed that it was wrong to bring a child into the world as she thought she had nothing to offer it, that what she did was out of love. I find it difficult to condemn her for that.
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I don’t think it our job to condemn, but rather to speak the Truth that God has given all of us (i.e, the fifth commandment). Hopefully you can counsel your friend to go to confession, seek absolution and go forth.
 
I have said it before and I will keep saying it, your generation is going to evangelize our generation, the children of this age will raise up prophets for the Lord. you go, girl.
 
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