2 Maccabbees and Purgatory Question

[hudson]

I got a question that I hope makes sense. I know that these passages in 2 Maccabees are evidence of praying for the dead in Purgatory. What I need help understanding is the following. In the Apostles Creed we say Jesus descended into Hell(abode of the dead). Heaven was closed to everyone from Adam up until the time of Christs death. So when the people died in 2 Maccabees, weren’t they on there way to the abode of the dead and not heaven. Would they have needed prayers for them in purgatory if they were not on a path to heaven? Is the answer that after death everything happens outside of time? That the prayers for the dead would have applied to them after Jesus visited them, after he died on the Cross? I hope I am clear about what I am asking.

(2 Maccabees 39-46):

"39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs.

40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.

41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.

42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.

43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;

44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.

45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.

46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. "

 

[105lynne]

I’m curious about this as well …

 

[JonathonofOhio]

The Hebrews believed that Sheol (what we call hell now) was divided into two places: one place was of suffering and the other was a place of rest (the Bosom of Abraham they called it).

The belief that He descended into hell is professed by Peter here:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Peter 3:19-20[/BIBLEDRB]

That he refers to it as a ‘prison’ reflects how they drew similarities between their concept of salvation and how debtor prisons worked at the time.

The belief in the place of peace and torment in what we call hell is expressed and confirmed by Jesus in the story of Lazarus
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 16:19-23[/BIBLEDRB]

Since people in torment were also relieved of their suffering and brought up into heaven, this means their final destination was heaven. So there is the answer to your question.

Basically, they were on their way to heaven, they were just waiting for Christ, and ultimately the prayers helped. Also, they could have very well been released from their suffering for a time before Christ and were able to join those in the Bosom of Abraham.

There is more information here on Christ’s descent into hell:
newadvent.org/summa/4052.htm#article2

 

[MarcoPolo]

Also, the text in Maccabbees clearly says the purpose of the prayer was to detach the dead from their remaining sins, even after their deaths: “he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.”

So it is apparent from this wording that those doing the praying believed in some sense of salvation involving deliverance from sin. The other thing to remember is that “time” doesn’t have to work as it does in creation. There is logical sequence in that purification comes “first” and “then” salvation. But the prayers of the living did not necessarily have to be “answered” at the same “time” as those in Maccabbees. If the dead in the Maccabbees account were ultmately freed from their sins only until “after” Christ rose from the dead, then the prayers 200 years prior still have their effect.

Ultimately, the problem described in the OP is a logistical problem native to the temporal order of creation and not one we can assign to the other side.