2 yrs. for the kings to get to Bethlehem?

[Annemariels]

Hint: For my shortened version, skip the sections indicated by { }

…So, a girl in my fourth grade CCD class stands up and tells the class that it took the kings two years to get to Bethlehem.

{Whoa! I think to myself as I scramble to locate that fact in the dusty storage area of my brain. Nope, can’t find it here I murmur to myself as I blow the dust off the last teenie tiny spot it could be up there. Must be new incoming info I decide.}

This student attends a mostly protestant Christian school, so I calmly told her and the 16 other wide-eyed sponges who were looking at me for confirmation that I would check into it and see if that is what Catholics believe.

{Then I excused myself for a minute, sashayed down the hall, stepped outside, and freaked out for a moment. After my episode I straightened my blouse, combed my fingers through my then messy hair, and strolled back into the room and resumed our lesson.}

Does anyone know if it really did take them two years to get there?

Thanks,
Anne Marie

 

[Nita]

We don’t know how long it took them to get to Bethlehem.

According to Matthew, they were living in a house (no longer in the stable) at the time the magi arrived:
Mt. 2:11 and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

The two year date is speculated because Herod ordered the killing of all the male babies in Bethlehem 2 years and younger. Presumably, he based this decision on the date the magi first saw the star. (Mt. 2:7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared;}

However, there is no reason to assume that the star could not have been visible to the magi prior to the birth of Christ. God may well have wanted it to appear earlier – allowing for travelling time – so that the magi might arrive in Bethlehem soon after Jesus’ birth.

Nita

 

[thistle]

Hint: For my shortened version, skip the sections indicated by { }

…So, a girl in my fourth grade CCD class stands up and tells the class that it took the kings two years to get to Bethlehem.

{Whoa! I think to myself as I scramble to locate that fact in the dusty storage area of my brain. Nope, can’t find it here I murmur to myself as I blow the dust off the last teenie tiny spot it could be up there. Must be new incoming info I decide.}

This student attends a mostly protestant Christian school, so I calmly told her and the 16 other wide-eyed sponges who were looking at me for confirmation that I would check into it and see if that is what Catholics believe.

{Then I excused myself for a minute, sashayed down the hall, stepped outside, and freaked out for a moment. After my episode I straightened my blouse, combed my fingers through my then messy hair, and strolled back into the room and resumed our lesson.}

Does anyone know if it really did take them two years to get there?

Thanks,
Anne Marie

Scripture says nothing about how long the wise men took.
By the way Scripture also says nothing about them being kings and nor how many there were.

 

[DaveBj]

1. We know that the arrival of the Magi (number unknown) was at least 40 days after the birth of Jesus, because the Holy Family were still in the vicinity, close enough to make it into the Temple in Jerusalem for the Presentation.

Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (Luke 2:22-23

'If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean. And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled.
'When the days of her purification are fulfilled, whether for a son or a daughter, she shall bring to the priest a lamb of the first year as a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtledove as a sin offering, to the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then he shall offer it before the LORD, and make atonement for her. And she shall be clean from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who has borne a male or a female. Lev 12:2-4, 6-7

1. We know that the arrival of the Magi was long enough after the birth of Christ that he had grown from an infant (brephos, Luke 2:12) to a young child (paidion, Matt. 2:11).
2. We know that Herod commanded that all children under the age of 2 be killed, but for all we know, he was hedging his bets.
3. Beyond that, we don’t know jack; we’re just speculating.

DaveBj

 

[Sir_Anthony]

of course, one should ask yourself several questions like one where did the wise men come from? There are two locations either in Babylonia (under Persian control) or Persia itself. Now Persia and Rome were for centuries were in conflict, so the wise men might have taken an extra route or two to avoid Roman scouts and authorities from stopping them and seizing their valuables (remember gold was the cheap gift that was given, and they were travelling to a client of Rome, there it could have been interpreted as a diplomatic mission for the Jews to help the Persians). And considering normal travelling patterns of the times, they probably travelled in groups of 10-20 or perhaps part of a trade caravan, whether they were all magi or not, that’s debatable. Anyhow, it would probably take between 3-6 months to reach Jerusalem with any detours they would take.

Also, just quickly, the decree that the whole world be taxed which Luke mentions of Quirinius when he was governor of Syria. I think Luke is both right and wrong and probably made a small error. The birth of Jesus did not take during his governship of Quirinius, though I do think Quirinius was involved in the story. At the time of Jesus birth 6 BC, Quirinius was engaged as a general of the legion in a nasty uprising in northwest syria, he probably had his officials go out to the client state to garner money and/or support for the suppression and in doing so he probably went about impressing Galilaens and others into service. Herod probably had an assessment of his Kingdom to figure tribute to Rome. Joseph probably wasn’t a native Galileans, but rather who had some kind of property in Bethlehem area or family and went to Galilee for seasons to work on projects up there. So he was probably fleeing from conscription or something to do with Rome. I don’t expect Luke to have all the details correct as he is not a native of Palestine, and though he probably met some of the Apostles, and Luke’s objective was to link Jesus, historically. Sorry if I am rambled on off topic, by the way most of sayings are speculations and I am no means a biblical scholar

 

[Crumpy]

There is a website that has some materials on this subject.

The DVD version of the information was, if I’m not mistaken, broadcast on EWTN in the last week (before 1/2/09.

see www.bethlehemstar.net

the idea is this: The magi were Jews who were awaiting the Messiah, in the first place. They lived 700 miles away in Babylon.

A lot of the program was dedicated to explaining the star itself.

Regulus is the “king” star near the constellation Leo (the Lion - pointing to Judah). Jupiter was the “star” that circled Regulus to get the attention of the Magi, that an important king was born.

The Bethlehem star itself was a conjunction of Venus and Jupiter, which would have been the brightest “star” in the sky. The planets move in their orbits around the Sun, but from a moving vantage point on earth, the appearance of the path of Jupiter is backward (or “retrograde”).

According the author, the Magi saw the sign of Regulus about nine months before the nativity, and they set out for Jerusalem, where they figured the king would be born. But, in Jerusalem, they saw the Bethlehem Star, the conjunction of Venus and Jupiter and it got them looking southward towards Bethlehem, which was five miles away.

When the “star stopped” due to the retrograde motion of Jupiter, they stopped in Bethlehem to find the Messiah.

These are the basic ideas about the Magi.

The producer of this DVD also explains the appearance of the sky that St. John describes in Rev 12. He theorizes that John saw the constellation Virgo (“virgin”) above the horison, in the east. And, in particular, he saw the sun rising in Virgo (the woman clothed with the sun) and the quarter moon was rising at her “feet.” He didn’t elaborate but you can imagine where he was “going” with the crown of stars about her head.

I just surfed into the program, about 45 min before the end. The website has the DVD for sale for about $12 or so.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich states, based on her private revelation from God, that it took the three kings about one month to travel to Bethlehem.
See the book: The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Scripture states that the Magi visited Mary and Jesus at Bethlehem. But they were living in Nazareth and had only gone to Bethlehem for the Census. It is unlikely that they then remained in Bethlehem, with no house to stay in, for two years, when they could have returned to their own home in Nazareth. So Scripture implies that the kings arrived rather promptly. A trip of two years would be hard to explain given this description in Scripture.

Also, two years (Jewish calendar) is just over 700 days. At only ten miles a day, they could have traveled 7,000 miles. At only 5 miles a day they could have traveled 3,500 miles. So even for a very slow journey by foot, 2 years would not be needed even to travel from the futhest point in Asia to the east of Bethlehem.

 

[thistle]

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich states, based on her private revelation from God, that it took the three kings about one month to travel to Bethlehem.
See the book: The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Scripture states that the Magi visited Mary and Jesus at Bethlehem. But they were living in Nazareth and had only gone to Bethlehem for the Census. It is unlikely that they then remained in Bethlehem, with no house to stay in, for two years, when they could have returned to their own home in Nazareth. So Scripture implies that the kings arrived rather promptly. A trip of two years would be hard to explain given this description in Scripture.

Also, two years (Jewish calendar) is just over 700 days. At only ten miles a day, they could have traveled 7,000 miles. At only 5 miles a day they could have traveled 3,500 miles. So even for a very slow journey by foot, 2 years would not be needed even to travel from the futhest point in Asia to the east of Bethlehem.

Scripture does not say they were kings and it does not say there were three of them. People assume there were three because of the gifts but that does not prove anything.

 

[guanophore]

Hint: For my shortened version, skip the sections indicated by { }

…So, a girl in my fourth grade CCD class stands up and tells the class that it took the kings two years to get to Bethlehem.

{Whoa! I think to myself as I scramble to locate that fact in the dusty storage area of my brain. Nope, can’t find it here I murmur to myself as I blow the dust off the last teenie tiny spot it could be up there. Must be new incoming info I decide.}

This student attends a mostly protestant Christian school, so I calmly told her and the 16 other wide-eyed sponges who were looking at me for confirmation that I would check into it and see if that is what Catholics believe.

{Then I excused myself for a minute, sashayed down the hall, stepped outside, and freaked out for a moment. After my episode I straightened my blouse, combed my fingers through my then messy hair, and strolled back into the room and resumed our lesson.}

Does anyone know if it really did take them two years to get there?

Thanks,
Anne Marie

Matt 2:7
7 Then Herod secretly called for the wise men and learned from them the exact time when the star had appeared.

We surmise that Herod chose to kill all the children two years old and under because of the date he learned from the wise men. Other clues in the text are the word “paidon” (child) is used for a toddler, and they were in a “house”, not in the cave still with Jesus still in the manger as is commonly portrayed.

 

[Jennifer_G]

…So, a girl in my fourth grade CCD class stands up and tells the class that it took the kings two years to get to Bethlehem…

I remember asking a similar question when I was in 3rd grade Sunday School (Lutheran church). It was more like, “Well, why did it take so long?”. The answer I got was that “It took longer for them to travel back then” (I imagined them being from Persia, India, and China - they were after all, from the “east”). Even still, it probably had to be a few months for the kings to send delegations to each other to discuss the event, then the logistics of getting supplies to travel, all of which takes time. I guess that’s part of where the two year thinking came in (along with all those under 2 years of age being killed). Oddly enough, we also had the “imagery” of the Wise Men visiting Jesus when He was still in the manger (nativity scenes). So, it was kind of confusing both ways.

Now, there’s a reversal… protestants stating something that isn’t quite in the Bible word per word (although implied).

Matthew 2:16 Then Herod perceiving that he was deluded by the wise men, was exceeding angry; and sending killed all the men children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

I would guess that the wise men said something like, “We saw this star about 2 years ago…”.