20 Years from Now

[I_Believe]

I see you are online now CL. I removed the “cafeteria grub” thing. My apology if you saw it. It was not cool.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Hi CL Could you imagine what would happen if I posted that on AQ ? I’m not trying to be funny either.

Believe it or not, I’ve never been on angelqueen…Some SSPXer I am

And how about the “perfect liberal” and “what a mystery” thing ? Sound like someone wants to be a sede, but is just shy of having the courage to proclaim himself one. Sorry Y. E. but, see 'ya.

I know virtually nothing about these two quotes. I remember when they happened, but it’s not something I ever participated in on a forum…Since I don’t know, is there a chance that when Fellay said he’s “perfectly liberal” that he didn’t honestly mean it that way, or that he mischaracterized what he was trying to say? I dunno.

It’s obvious he knows there is a problem, but no matter what he does, it isn’t enough for the “office of perpetual inquisition”.

We see things differently. First of all, I don’t regard the SSPX as the ‘office’ that you describe. Secondly, I don’t think that they’re looking at his efforts and poo-pooing them and just complaining about it all. Rather, I think that they are profusely thankful to him for what he has done (S.P. etc), and want it to continue. The SSPX is in the church, but they still need to have discussions with Rome though Rome seems hesitant. And I can’t blame them. As soon as the excommunications are made null and the Society is unequivocally welcomed into ‘full’ communion, it’s going to put JPII in a bad light in a lot of people’s eyes. And as soon as all this takes place Rome will be shown to have been wrong etc, and I just don’t think they want to do that. So for now, I think they like where the SSPX is…in the church, according to her own members, but ‘schismatic’ according to people who won’t looke beyond Ecclesia Dei and understand that Hoyos isn’t just simply running his mouth when he says ‘there is no schism’ etc.

The fact is, there are those in the movement who have given up on Rome. They don’t like to hear it, and they sure as heck aint gonna admit it, but it’s the truth.

Yes, these are the ones who have also given up on the SSPX and instead visit the SSPV and the CMRI etc. The folks who attend the SSPX (in Phoenix, at least) are an ultra friendly, joyful, non-condemning, and spiritual community. It helps to have an excellent priest…

Is there truly a “remnant” ? Darn straight there is, and you may very well be right in that the remnant will shrink. But, the true remnant doesn’t count in it’s ranks those who display bitterness, and suspicion of a man like BXVI.

Nor does it count in its ranks those who display apathy and disobedience to His Holiness. Just to make myself clear, my **opinion **is that there’s a greater **percentage **of the faithful in the trad movement who are/will belong to this ‘remnant’ than among the OF faithful.

To lay all this mess on his shoulders and expect him to miraculously restore the “glory days” doesn’t fly. That mindset requires things that are not traditionallly catholic. It requires throwing certain Virtues, and words like “fiat” out the window.

But these are all things that do not particularly pertain to the SSPX. There are groups and there are people who hold that mindset, but I just don’t think any of your assertions of the SSPX are particularly true.

But I know the difference between sorrow and prayers of reparation, and the contrary emotions of hard heartedness and bitterness.

I have seen very little hard heartedness in my 3 or 4 years attending SSPX Masses but a lot prayer and reparation. Conversely I have seen a ton of indifference, ignorance, and apathy among the non-tradi movement (aka post-concilliar church). Lukewarmness is a terrible disease.

What saddens me, is that those who have been so right all along, and have fought the fight so well, won’t lay down their swords and take our Holy Father’s hand he has offered, and be a part of the healing that will take time. Why can’t they see the Faith in this man ?

They see the faithfulness of the Lord and place all their trust in Him. Other than that, they must work diligently toward restoration of their society, and that requires more than simply taking the pope’s hand. After all, they are still holding onto his cassock! But they need more. Both sides want and need more, so let’s get on with it!

If they want to keep fighting, then why in Heaven’s name won’t they fight the wolves alongside BXVI, instead of staying a safe distance from them ?

The SSPX is already thickly beset with enemies. They manage as they can.

 

[pnewton]

I will venture a few wild guesses, since speculation is the only way to answer such a question.

1. I have no idea if the TLM will grow or decline, but I do not thinkg either way will be a significant change.
2. Liberalism will decline drastically, as it is a by-product of a dying generation.
3. The SSPX will decline, but remain a separate entity. It will take it’s place alongside the Old Catholic Church as a separate denomination. I base this on the historical precedent of the Old Catholic Church and my belief that some will never want to be reunited with Rome unless they get everything they want. The decline will not be a falling off of faith, but a one by one return of some of its members.
4. I think the Mass will change back to ad orientem, if Pope Benedict XVI lives long enough to see it through. It is something he believes strongly in. I also think we may see and increased incorporation of some Latin phrases in the Mass.
5. I think people will still complain about the music, as I believe complaining to be in the DNA of human beings.
6. I think Protestants will continue to be welcomed ecumenically as they come to view Catholics more and more as fellow Christians. I have seen this happen so much in my life time and see no reason for the trend to end. I also do not think 20 years is enough to see major reunification, but it will be the start that will one day lead to some reunification.

 

[I_Believe]

CS,Fair enough. I agree with much you say, especially the percentage of those in the movement being more aware of what the faith requires of us than the average contemporary catholic.

And I don’t claim to know more of where the Society is coming from than those in it.

The perpetual inquisition thing is just my own term I apply to individuals, not the Society itself. I’m ranting on a mindset.

Your argument is fair, and frankly, is more likely to convince me I’m confused about much of this, rather than my argument will convince you I’m anything, but confused lol. I’m a Johnny come lately in all of this, I’ll admit.

You are right, BXVI is in a tough spot. The Church doesn’t tend to conceed much. History shows that.

Wouldn’t we all like to be a fly on the wall when H.E.Fellay, Cardianl Hoyos, and BXVI discuss it all ?

Funny thing is, I’ve heard more lamenting of the current state of things in the holmilies of the 93 year old priest that prays the EF at our local diocean parish, than I did at the several Masses at the local Society Chapel I assisted, rock solid as they were. Either our new Archbishop knows this old priest is right, or let’s it go because of his age.

Anyhow, it’s not my intention to offend the Society’s flock or it’s clergy. Like I said, it’s the mindset of some folks and their attitude toward BXVI and Fr Michael that gets my goat.

God Bless friend, I’m heading for the pillow.