2009...2010 RCIA Dropout

[T700]

Looks like I won’t be taking a dip in the Tiber in 2009. I officially withdrew from the RCIA program on Wednesday. If anyone is interested, you can read some of what led up to this here.

It boils down to the fact that I am extremely unhappy at a rather liberal and charismatic parish. Just not a good fit.

The pebble that tipped the balance came last Monday. One of the priests was talking with the RCIA group. He told us that if people refrained from sex outside of marriage, that they would receive, “extra blessings” and that it wasn’t really, “that big a deal,” and “not that it was his place to tell us what to do.” He then proceeded to speak to one of the women in the group and say, “Just like I told you in your confession at the retreat.”

At that point, I was seized with a intense desire to punch him. Luckily for both of us, good sense weighed in and I didn’t. Even now typing this, I just want to grab him and…well, you get the picture.

Why am I so angry? My wonderful, sweet, kind, loving, gentle, cradle Catholic wife has not been to confession in 20+ years after some really bad experiences with priests. She was not at all in favor of leaving the Anglican communion and my conversion. She is now even more firmly entrenched in her desire to never confess to a priest. She only very reluctantly agreed to support me in finding another Catholic church. My faith is strong enough to know that this parish and that priest is just an anomaly, but the damage he/they caused to my wife makes me furious.

Anyway, my annulment continues to process and we’re off to find a more traditional congregation. Doesn’t have to be TLM, but I’d at least like something faithful to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

Paul

 

[jmcrae]

If I were that woman, I’d be reporting him to his Bishop, like, yesterday. He had absolutely no right to violate her privacy like that.

PS: This is absolutely the first time I’ve ever heard of this happening, though. Sheesh, it makes me wonder if you were actually in a Catholic Church, since most priests are so conditioned not to speak about anything in the Confessional that they literally can’t remember what goes on in there.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

He then proceeded to speak to one of the women in the group and say, “Just like I told you in your confession at the retreat.”

IF this happened as posted I believe he just excommunicated himself by breaking the Seal of Confession.

 

[Trishie]

Paul I’ll be keeping you and your wife in my prayers and Masses.
I read a previous post with some concern…God be with you and your wife…and I ask Him to heal the hurt your wife has suffered.
God bless you both.
Please let us know how you go
Warm regards, Trishie

 

[quiet52]

Looks like I won’t be taking a dip in the Tiber in 2009. I officially withdrew from the RCIA program on Wednesday. If anyone is interested, you can read some of what led up to this here.

It boils down to the fact that I am extremely unhappy at a rather liberal and charismatic parish. Just not a good fit.

The pebble that tipped the balance came last Monday. One of the priests was talking with the RCIA group. He told us that if people refrained from sex outside of marriage, that they would receive, “extra blessings” and that it wasn’t really, “that big a deal,” and “not that it was his place to tell us what to do.” He then proceeded to speak to one of the women in the group and say, “Just like I told you in your confession at the retreat.”

At that point, I was seized with a intense desire to punch him. Luckily for both of us, good sense weighed in and I didn’t. Even now typing this, I just want to grab him and…well, you get the picture.

Why am I so angry? My wonderful, sweet, kind, loving, gentle, cradle Catholic wife has not been to confession in 20+ years after some really bad experiences with priests. She was not at all in favor of leaving the Anglican communion and my conversion. She is now even more firmly entrenched in her desire to never confess to a priest. She only very reluctantly agreed to support me in finding another Catholic church. My faith is strong enough to know that this parish and that priest is just an anomaly, but the damage he/they caused to my wife makes me furious.

Anyway, my annulment continues to process and we’re off to find a more traditional congregation. Doesn’t have to be TLM, but I’d at least like something faithful to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

Paul

Please write or call your bishop about this incident immediately. That priest violated the seal of confession – an extremely grievous act. Let me emphasize - extremely. A priest is not ever to refer to a confession to someone privately, even, outside of the confessional, unless the person brings it up. Does that priest have dementia, or does he in deed have this much disregard for his priestly office???
I’m so sorry this happened.
Please, again, contact your bishop about this. No one else deserves to experience this in the future.
I’m sorry you were connected to such unorthodoxy in your RCIA process too.
Please hang in there, and continue to show the love of Christ to your wife, no matter what.

 

[Bonnie]

Unless the rules have changed, revealing anything about a confession is a sin that can be forgiven only by the pope. DO call the Bishop. If no one tells him what’s going on in the parishes, he cannot lead with wisdom.

 

[alavenderluvbug]

I went through something very similar while I was in RCIA. The deacon that was leading the RCIA told everyone it was ok to use contraception as long as you didn’t feel any guilt over it. He also told me privately that he and his wife had tried NFP but were unable to control themselves so they stopped using the NFP. The deacon even told me that I wasn’t allowed to wear a veil to church because the majority of the people don’t wear any and I would be causing scandal in their church community. I continued with the RCIA and my annulment process, which seemed to last forever. I have been Catholic now for 3 years and I am glad that I didn’t let and wolves in sheeps clothing distract me from reaching my goal. I ended up moving out of state and landed myself in a great parish with very “Catholic deacons and priests” I am happy I kept going. I would report this guy to the bishop but I would really reconsider dropping out of the RCIA. I know it can be quite frustrating but God will reward you. You can always use it as an opportunity to evangelize to the priest or RCIA director.

 

[jc-servant]

Nothing would have kept me from becoming Catholic at the earliest possible moment in order to confess my sins and receive Our Lord in the Eucharist, not a rotten priest or crazy people dancing in the pews.

I drove across a large metroplex for 9 months to attend RCIA where there was a good priest and excellent instructors, but I would have given up whatever I had to in order to make that journey across the Tiber. The RCIA process can be long, difficult and frustrating, especially for converts who have studied extensively on their own before they join the classes. However, there is the alternative to be privately instructed by a priest. I cannot believe that this is the only priest available in the area since the OP mentioned finding another parish. We should not judge the entire faith by a few bad priests or an awful parish.

Perhaps the OP is not quite ready to be Catholic because these external factors have nothing to do with a candidate’s spiritual readiness to profess a faith or their relationship with God. I am not making a value judgment about that choice to wait because each of us comes to God in a different way and time. I mention my own journey to show that where there is a strong motivation, other avenues to the goal can be found without delaying the reception into the church.

Jesus is still present at every liturgy in the Eucharist unless the priest somehow does the consecration incorrectly. It matters not if the priest is the holiest in the world or the opposite or if the entire mass is filled with bizarre people. If we knew that Jesus was going to be coming from Heaven and speaking at a stadium would we not attend because of some annoying or even sinful behavior by other people in that location? I believe that all Christians would stand in the rain or walk for miles or do whatever it took to be there in His presence. He is physically present in the Eucharist at every mass, so why do we let relatively minor things get in the way of our being in His presence and more importantly receiving Him into our very bodies?

OP, don’t let anyone or anything keep you from that amazing moment when you can finally receive Jesus in the Eucharist. If no one is nearby who can instruct you privately on a frequent schedule, perhaps a priest can do it by phone and occasional visits to a nearby city/town.

 

[lbzCA2008]

I am in RCIA right now and absolutely love it. Our Deacon instructs it and he is simply amazing at it in my opinion. He is very passionate about the religon and lets everyone know it and it really makes me very excited to take my first Communion at Easter Vigil. The Priest that also helps at our meetings is very helpful and they have been teaching the class very well I think.

Everyday we start off with prayer and discuss the previous class and they ask if anyone has any questions. We then start off with lessons and questions are welcomed through out the teaching. When they are done with the lesson we have discussion and it is always a good one. Then we close with prayer and anyone who has any other questions can stay and ask.

I feel very bad that you had a bad experience. I pray that you and your wife are able to figure everything out because it truly is an amazing thing I look forward to Tuesday nights every week because I love learning more about the faith I am entering into. It is also nice to see how excited our instructors are about the faith.

 

[hy_me33]

I am very sorry for you and your wife having a bad experience at your RCIA class, it almost sounds like something of a movie where the priest is portrayed as the bad guy wow this even frustrates me having this priest break the seal of the confession, I hope this experience doesn’t desuade you from finding Christ in the fullness of the Faith I will keep you and your craddle catholic wife in prayer…your brother in Christ

Jaime

 

[genevieve4]

One of the priests was talking with the RCIA group. He told us that if people refrained from sex outside of marriage, that they would receive, “extra blessings” and that it wasn’t really, “that big a deal,” and “not that it was his place to tell us what to do.” He then proceeded to speak to one of the women in the group and say, “Just like I told you in your confession at the retreat.”

Just came across this thread today … did anything come of this? Did you report this violation?
I’m not Catholic, but a very devout Catholic friend of mine had told me that NEVER has a priest violated the seal of the confessional … scary …

 

[fdesales]

Looks like I won’t be taking a dip in the Tiber in 2009. I officially withdrew from the RCIA program on Wednesday. If anyone is interested, you can read some of what led up to this here.

It boils down to the fact that I am extremely unhappy at a rather liberal and charismatic parish. Just not a good fit.

The pebble that tipped the balance came last Monday. One of the priests was talking with the RCIA group. He told us that if people refrained from sex outside of marriage, that they would receive, “extra blessings” and that it wasn’t really, “that big a deal,” and “not that it was his place to tell us what to do.” He then proceeded to speak to one of the women in the group and say, “Just like I told you in your confession at the retreat.”

At that point, I was seized with a intense desire to punch him. Luckily for both of us, good sense weighed in and I didn’t. Even now typing this, I just want to grab him and…well, you get the picture.

Why am I so angry? My wonderful, sweet, kind, loving, gentle, cradle Catholic wife has not been to confession in 20+ years after some really bad experiences with priests. She was not at all in favor of leaving the Anglican communion and my conversion. She is now even more firmly entrenched in her desire to never confess to a priest. She only very reluctantly agreed to support me in finding another Catholic church. My faith is strong enough to know that this parish and that priest is just an anomaly, but the damage he/they caused to my wife makes me furious.

Anyway, my annulment continues to process and we’re off to find a more traditional congregation. Doesn’t have to be TLM, but I’d at least like something faithful to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

Paul

Paul,

It is too bad that you (and many others) have had this experience. It seems to be a relatively common complaint that I hear on the internet from others who go through RCIA.

A few have suggested you try another parish’s program. You should be able to “transfer over” without any problems. RCIA is quite flexible, it is the instructors that sometimes make it inflexible. IF you are an active Christian already, you can ask to be privately received into the Church via instruction, by deacon or priest, and go through a public ritual on a Sunday. I teach RCIA and this was how it was once done. This has not gone away as an option, and can be useful for those who are disenchanted with the RCIA program because of a poor instructor.

Unfortunately, there are many people who are falling head over heals to be “accepted” in the eyes of converts. These instructors will water down the faith for people to “get them in the door”. It is false ecumenism, as Popes have already stated. Thus, we see Catholic priests making the statements you heard, deacons and nuns telling us “it’s alright to use contraception”. Perhaps they should read the statements from “Splendor of the Truth” from John Paul 2 on such watering down the faith.

IF you are indeed wanting to become Catholic, however, one shouldn’t let such things prevent you from becoming Catholic. I believe this is God’s way of telling you that perhaps you are not ready yet. Why do I say this? A person who focuses on what a priest says or what he does or how the liturgy is done - and considers that the Catholic Church has “gone off the rails” or exits/not enter is clearly focusing on men, rather than God. God established a Church, and warts and all, she is what she is. The Church has always been stumbling on its journey to God. ALL of the heresies, for example, begin from within her. The vast majority begin with a priest gone astray from Catholic understanding…

Don’t let the poorly chosen words of a priest or a bad attitude of a receptionist stop you from fully entering into communion with what you believe is the Church of Jesus Christ. The gates of hell shall not prevail against her, despite turmoil from within and without.

Regards

 

[fdesales]

Just came across this thread today … did anything come of this? Did you report this violation?
I’m not Catholic, but a very devout Catholic friend of mine had told me that NEVER has a priest violated the seal of the confessional … scary …

Not to address only you directly -

However, the Confessional seal was not broken in the case mentioned by Paul above. The priest was clearly speaking to the woman about what HE said to HER as advice. He was not telling others the sins of this woman. He should have kept this quiet, but he is reiterating to her what he told her, not listing her sins for others to hear.

I disagree on the advice given, however, let’s not tar and feather the guy by “excommunicating” him!

Regards

 

[jmcrae]

Not to address only you directly -

However, the Confessional seal was not broken in the case mentioned by Paul above. The priest was clearly speaking to the woman about what HE said to HER as advice. He was not telling others the sins of this woman. He should have kept this quiet, but he is reiterating to her what he told her, not listing her sins for others to hear.

I disagree on the advice given, however, let’s not tar and feather the guy by “excommunicating” him!

Regards

Yes, but what HE said to HER in Confession made it pretty clear what sin the conversation was about. I doubt she was just asking an idle question about sex outside of marriage in the Confessional. In any case, a Confessor who replies to a confession about sex outside of marriage by saying “It’s no big deal” is probably not the best person to be going to Confession with, even if he could keep his mouth shut afterwards.

I, too, hope that this situation was brought to the Bishop’s attention, and that that priest is no longer performing any duties in the Church.

 

[Robbinson]

I’m so sorry to hear of your experience and will be praying for you. The crossing of the Tiber is an important, but ultimately extremely personal decision.

I’m hoping to be confirmed at the end of this month - its something I have been studying and praying about for over a year - having completed RCIA last year. I now feel I am ready.

For me, I found it necessary to distinguish between the doctrine of the Church, which I believe is inerrant and the fullest expression of the truth of the gospel, and the implementation of doctrine by human beings (priests, deacons and bishops) within the Church. Even with the best of intentions, priests, deacons and bishops are human - and some are better and more faithful to the doctrines of the church than others.

I suppose one could say that, as believers, the apostles and other early Christians did not leave “Peter” because of “Judas”.

But I completely understand your perespective.

Wishing you and your family well in your walk of faith and continued study and prayer (regardless of what you decide).

Blessings,

Brian

 

[fdesales]

Yes, but what HE said to HER in Confession made it pretty clear what sin the conversation was about.

No, we don’t know that… The woman may have been asking for advice regarding another person. Let’s not jump to conclusions, my friend. In addition, even if speaking of herself, she may have been asking a “pre-emptive” question - like “When if I thought about doing this, Father, would that be a sin”…

No, it is not pretty clear. Thus, let’s not excommunicate the priest just yet!

In any case, a Confessor who replies to a confession about sex outside of marriage by saying “It’s no big deal” is probably not the best person to be going to Confession with, even if he could keep his mouth shut afterwards.

I agree with you. Sometimes, the most popular priests are the most “liberal” ones. Perhaps there is some efforts on the part of the priest to be accepted by trying to “fit in” in both worlds, the secular and the sacred…

I, too, hope that this situation was brought to the Bishop’s attention, and that that priest is no longer performing any duties in the Church.

Again, let’s hope the Bishop is not as ready as you to remove a priest from service because of such a thing. Why the need to kick someone out of the Church for PERCEIVED problems which are not proven??? Let’s be open to the possibility that the priest was not knowingly breaking the confessional seal before tossing the book at him…

Regards

 

[jmcrae]

No, we don’t know that… The woman may have been asking for advice regarding another person. Let’s not jump to conclusions, my friend. In addition, even if speaking of herself, she may have been asking a “pre-emptive” question - like “When if I thought about doing this, Father, would that be a sin”…

No, it is not pretty clear. Thus, let’s not excommunicate the priest just yet!

Well, he should also have known better than to make a statement that made it seem as though she had confessed such a thing, if that is indeed the case.

As the lay person in charge of making sure kids get their Sacramental Preparation for First Reconciliation, I am not even allowed to disclose which children attend the ceremony, because of the Church’s current laws on the privacy of the confessional. Surely a priest would know better than to a) disclose that this woman had been to Confession, and then on top of that, b) disclose a portion of the conversation that took place there.

I’d be fired (and rightly so) if I ever said to anyone that so-and-so had made his First Confession to such and such a priest at such a time and date. Surely a priest, who has greater responsibilities than I do, can be expected to adhere to the same standard as I am held to, if not higher.

 

[fdesales]

Well, he should also have known better than to make a statement that made it seem as though she had confessed such a thing, if that is indeed the case.

Certainly, he could have handled it better. But at least it appears you agree that we don’t necessarily have to presume he broke the seal of the Confessional. If it causes anyone to be scandalized, then there was a problem. Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world and the words of priests are often scrutinized with a fine tooth comb… Let us pray for more patience so that we give people the benefit of the doubt, my brother.

As the lay person in charge of making sure kids get their Sacramental Preparation for First Reconciliation, I am not even allowed to disclose which children attend the ceremony, because of the Church’s current laws on the privacy of the confessional. Surely a priest would know better than to a) disclose that this woman had been to Confession, and then on top of that, b) disclose a portion of the conversation that took place there.

See above. He did not make the wisest of choice of words, within earshot of others. He certainly could have reminded her in private.

I’d be fired (and rightly so) if I ever said to anyone that so-and-so had made his First Confession to such and such a priest at such a time and date. Surely a priest, who has greater responsibilities than I do, can be expected to adhere to the same standard as I am held to, if not higher.

Fired for that??? That’s silly, in my opinion. Whether a child makes his first confession or not is public record. What needs to be protected is what the child/adult CONFESSES. The SINS are protected by the seal, not the fact that one goes to confession. That is overreaction on the part of somone expanding the intent of the seal, my friend. Why would GOING to confession be a secret?

In Christ,

fdesales

 

[jmcrae]

Whether a child makes his first confession or not is public record.

No it isn’t. It is absolutely forbidden in our Diocese to keep any such records. The only things we keep are records of registration for the classes and attendance - we can say, “This child completed preparations for First Confession,” but we are not allowed to record attendance on the day itself.

Why would GOING to confession be a secret?

So that no one can be tempted to speculate about what they might have confessed, and so that no one can pass judgement on those who didn’t have anything to confess on that specific day, and so didn’t come.

 

[fdesales]

No it isn’t. It is absolutely forbidden in our Diocese to keep any such records. The only things we keep are records of registration for the classes and attendance - we can say, “This child completed preparations for First Confession,” but we are not allowed to record attendance on the day itself.

I think you are mistaken. Every diocese keeps records of when someone receives the sacraments of initiation… How does the Church know who has received Holy Communion?

So that no one can be tempted to speculate about what they might have confessed, and so that no one can pass judgement on those who didn’t have anything to confess on that specific day, and so didn’t come.

Again, I don’t see the point why it matters whether someone WENT to confession, just the sins themselves are protected by the seal of the confessional. Anyone can sit in the Church and watch who goes into the Confessional, my friend.

Regards