7 sacraments versus 2

[ALLFORHIM]

Do you agree baptism brings grace?

No, I believe it is an outward expression of my inward commitment to follow Jesus Christ.

Yet the Bible did not actaully say that “baptism will bring grace”. Can you then deny the grace from baptism? Same way applies to other Sacraments.

Yes I would deny it because the bible does not say anything about receivine grace like you would receive gas in your car. Once God starts calling you toward Him He is already given you grace just by the mere fact He has chosen you to begin to love Him and accept His gift in Jesus Christ dying on the cross.

Have you ever experienced the grace from the Sacrament of Reconciliation?

No what I have received is His mercy and love by being able to ask for forgiveness in the first place.

Can you deny that grace just beacuse there is no actual word of “grace” in the Bible where it talks about forgiveness of sins?

TI would never deny grace I guess I just dont believe the same way the catholics do about receiving bits and pieces of grace through the sacraments. The bible does not talk about grace in that way. Im not really even sure where the catholics got that idea The bible verses that you quoted actually seemed to prove my beliefs. I could go through each one and refute the catholic belief but ,honestly that is way too much work for me. Wow, I just realized how much I have grown in the last 3 years(after studying the bible). I just said I could refute those bible verses and ya know 3 years ago I wouldnt have been able to do that. Im sorry I just had an AHA moment of growth in my spiritual walk with God. Sorry for the ramble

 

[InLight247]

No, I believe it is an outward expression of my inward commitment to follow Jesus Christ.Yes I would deny it because the bible does not say anything about receivine grace like you would receive gas in your car…

Wow, I just realized how much I have grown in the last 3 years(after studying the bible). I just said I could refute those bible verses…

Grace is not something can be measured as gasoline.

Just because the Bible did not use the word “grace” with baptism, you deny the abundant grace in one’s baptism.
Obviously, your position is sola Scripture, and take every word literally.

Some profound feelings just have to be experienced to know.
Since you are not a Catholic and you have never gone to Confession, it is hard to explain the beauty and grace of this Sacrament. So I am not even going to try.

It is great you have studied Bible and know much about it.
For me, I will be the first to admit that the more I know, the more I know that I don’t know.

The Bible verses I previously quoted just explain the basis of
the 7 Sacraments of Catholic Church. There is no intention to
engage any debate here.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

So sins can be forgiven apart from the operation of grace?

Ephesians 2 sums that up. The whole chapter.

Well, that chapter never mentioned forgiveness (at least not in the NIV), so I don’t see what it has to do with my question… Unless, of course, you think concepts can be operative in Scripture without explicit mention of specific terms.

Your passage does, however, speak of salvation, and the fact that it comes by grace. Now, can there be salvation without forgiveness of sins? I am unaware of a Christian soteriology that completely overlooks the presence of sin, so it seems that even in those traditions that consider it merely ignored but not rectified there must be some transition from the present state of sin to a different state for salvation to occur. And this transition can only occur through grace. So if sins are forgiven, grace is operative, yes?

Or, since you’ve cited a passage on salvation instead of forgiveness, we can instead consider a simple sentence of Jesus, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.” (Mk 16:16) Salvation comes through grace, Jesus links salvation to a combination of belief and baptism, therefore grace operates in connection with baptism.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Ephesians 2 sums that up. The whole chapter.

Well, that chapter never mentioned forgiveness (at least not in the NIV), so I don’t see what it has to do with my question… Unless, of course, you think concepts can be operative in Scripture without explicit mention of specific terms.

Your passage does, however, speak of salvation, and the fact that it comes by grace. Now, can there be salvation without forgiveness of sins? I am unaware of a Christian soteriology that completely overlooks the presence of sin, so it seems that even in those traditions that consider it merely ignored but not rectified there must be some transition from the present state of sin to a different state for salvation to occur. And this transition can only occur through grace. So if sins are forgiven, grace is operative, yes?

Or, since you’ve cited a passage on salvation instead of forgiveness, we can instead consider a simple sentence of Jesus, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.” (Mk 16:16) Salvation comes through grace, Jesus links salvation to a combination of belief and baptism, therefore grace operates in connection with baptism.

Hi,
That quote was not mine I may have referred to another question and answered with Ephesians.

 

[Proeliator]

Ask your husband who determined that they (his religion) should only have two? A man or God? If scripture shows seven sacraments then perhaps the man is wrong!!!
Christ works his first miracle at the prompting of his mother. Where were they?

 

[Proeliator]

Ask your husband who determined that they (his religion) should only have two? A man or God? Why did Luther subtract five from the already seven?
From my personal experience I know that you can point out in scripture the basis for seven sacraments but “they”,protestants, will not believe it. They and the other 2,000 different religions can take scripture alone to argue their point and look what happens- another new religion!
The Holy spirit is the ONE who moved the Catholic Church to institute the seven Sacraments. I say that it is their loss for not having seven. Its a crying shame that they dont see the grace bestowed upon all who receive some of the seven sacraments. They are an oath to God.
Luther denied the priesthood at the institution of the Eucharist, denied the real presence (which is easy to explain but hard to understand when not open to the truth) and denied other Catholic beliefs. He, a human being, diluted the FULL TRUTH (Scripture and Tradition) that the Catholic Church has always stood firm by. In essence your husband is one of two thousand different religions, not one united faith.
As scripture says “you will know a tree by its fruit”. A healthy tree does not produce “bad” fruit and a “bad” tree does not produce “good” fruit. If the seven sacraments was wrong than the Church and its seven sacraments would not be standing today as God would not allow it! He says it himself.
Then why are they(protestants) still standing you ask? Because they have SOME truth but not the FULL TRUTH! If your husband is not open to the Spirit he will never grasp this truth. Do not feel bad, I am in the same boat! Pray to the Spirit to enlighten him. I will pray for you!