A Choice to Exist?

[Dave]

I heard a question recently that I’ve been wrestling with lately for some reason, and I’m hoping someone can shed some light for me. It goes something like this:

"God has created us without our collaboration, but he isn’t going to save us without it"

I’ve never thought about life this way, but if we didn’t have a choice to exist, is it fair that we have to work hard and struggle against sin all our lives to merit eternal life?

Perhaps a stupid question, but I’m throwing it out there anyway

 

[otjm]

Well, I could give you the short answer I gave my kids: “Fair? Who said anything about fair? They lied to you.”

I am not sure what the word “fair” means to you in this context. Is it fair to give someone a choice? If we are controllers, then most certainly not, as they can do other than how we want. And to a controller, that isn’t “fair” that they can do differently.

Is it “fair” that we have choices? How “fair” would it be if we had no choices?

There would be no love, as love is a choice.

There would be no freedom, as freedom is a freedom to choose.

There would be no laughter, as laughter is a product of choices made.

There would be no compassion, as compassion is a choice.

There would be no surprises, as they are the result of choice.

The list goes on; supply your own choices, and then see if not having them is “fair”.

 

[dylanschrader]

God owes us nothing and we owe God everything.

God is completely blessed and sufficient in himself: he created us for our happiness. Now, our happiness–because of our rational nature–consists in knowing and loving God. Sin by its nature is a defect in our love of God–among other things–and therefore its effects (the “punishments of sin”) are not only something we deserve in the sense of receiving a sentence, but are something that follow as a natural consequence of sin.

We don’t merit salvation. Even being able to respond to God’s free gift of salvation is a free gift.

We do have to cooperate with God’s grace because of our nature. We can’t love God without using our will: it’s a contradiction, but that’s precisely what our happiness consists in: loving God. Therefore, we can’t have Heaven (perfection of love of God among other things) if we refuse to love God.

I think that quote is from St. Augustine, by the way.

 

[Abbadon]

wow that is epic… very nice… very nice… thats going to have me thinking for a while

 

[Dave]

Thanks for the responses. I’m reading some commentaries on the book of Genesis as well to try to get a better understanding of why sin came into being. Some fascinating subject matter for sure, but I guess I just haven’t been able to wrap my mind around it quite yet. Pray for me

 

[VociMike]

Just thinking out loud here. Is it possible that God has only created humans who he knew would have wanted to exist?

 

[Fidelis]

Is it better to exist or to not exist? Is non-existence preferable to non-existence?

With the exception with the many unfortunate and souls who, because of some mental illness or distress truly think they wish they were never born, most people are happy that they exist. Even people that live under grinding misery who have undergone horrific suffering in their lives are able to say they are happy to be alive.

We should thank God for our existence, for, after we are through this vale of tears, he made us to live with him in heaven forever.

Go forth in peace, for you have followed the good road. Go forth without fear, for he who created you has made you holy, has always protected you, and loves you as a mother. Blessed be you, my God, for having created me. -St. Clare

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

Just thinking out loud here. Is it possible that God has only created humans who he knew would have wanted to exist?

…Huh. That’s… huh. My mind’s going to be playing around with that one for a while…

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[DanteAlighieri]

I think it’s safe to say that people who earnestly wish they did not exist are afflicted in some way, either emotionally or neurologically, or both.

To exist is to be called to union with God. This is the purpose of our existence. In no way can this be considered oppression – it is a gift given to those who want it.

Those who want it will strive to be worthy of it, and God has provided the means of attaining it. He did not set us up to fail; we did that.

Peace,
Dante