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aball1035
Guest
Do you all think that in a perfect society, all of the moral laws would be based on the Church’s teaching? For example no gay marriage, public heretical speech, abortions etc.
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V
VampireQueen
Guest
I don’t think that kind of society can be found on earth. We will only have something like that in Heaven.
J
JohnAlexander
Guest
All moral laws are based on Church teaching, more accurately moral laws are part of Church teaching.
Do you mean all legal laws being based on Church teaching? Legislating morality is a terrible idea.
How can you prove guilt?
I don’t know where anyone gets the idea that moral laws should be the same as legal laws. God allows us to sin and he knows when we sin and knows exactly what punishment it deserves. Does anyone really think a human institution can be set up that will prevent us from sinning and/or punish us appropriately when we do? What God doesn’t do we think we can?
All moral laws need to be obeyed by choice, not by force or threat of punishment.
There are some things (murder, theft, rape) which are so harmful to society that they are prevented, by force if necessary. Most moral laws although harmful, are mostly harmful to the perpetrators. Regulating such things would cause more harm than good. Especially since it is impossible to find a government which would not take advantage of the power.
Do you mean all legal laws being based on Church teaching? Legislating morality is a terrible idea.
How can you prove guilt?
I don’t know where anyone gets the idea that moral laws should be the same as legal laws. God allows us to sin and he knows when we sin and knows exactly what punishment it deserves. Does anyone really think a human institution can be set up that will prevent us from sinning and/or punish us appropriately when we do? What God doesn’t do we think we can?
All moral laws need to be obeyed by choice, not by force or threat of punishment.
There are some things (murder, theft, rape) which are so harmful to society that they are prevented, by force if necessary. Most moral laws although harmful, are mostly harmful to the perpetrators. Regulating such things would cause more harm than good. Especially since it is impossible to find a government which would not take advantage of the power.
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aball1035
Guest
Perhaps I shouldn’t use “perfect society”, but you guys know what I mean. A society with it’s laws and public policies that Christ would think is best. How would that differ from America today?
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LoyalViews
Guest
Heaven is the only perfect society, but I agree that in everyone would know in their hearts God’s truth, and therefore we wouldn’t need the laws. It’s very utopian, but there wouldn’t be much need for government, because if someone did something wrong (if that’d happen) then they’d probably punish themselves. However I wouldn’t form a political party over it…I could only imagine.
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edwest2
Guest
Legislating immorality is far worse. And yes, though certainly not perfect, I lived during a time when I believed all laws flowed from sound moral principles. But as Catholic Radio host, Al Kresta, has reminded listeners many times: Catholics are suffering from a 40 year long amnesia. One day, we were living out our faith as a normal part of everyday life and gradually, we fell into an amnesia and forgot who we were. We were taught to stay away from the bad kids who stole things or possessed illegal items. We were never told to bother those kids or think that we were better, but the consequences were clear: if a police officer caught one of these kids with something stolen or illegal and one of us was nearby, he might think we were working together and take both of us in. That was the simple, practical lesson our parents taught all us kids in the neighborhood.
From: The Catholic Social Studies Series
Christian Principles and National Problems by Ostheimer and Delaney.
Permissu Superiorum:
Jacobus P. Sweeney, S.J., Provincial
Nihil Obstat:
Arthur J. Scanlon, S.T.D., Censor Librorum
Imprimatur:
Francis J. Spellman, Archbishop
New York, New York
Feast of the Assumption
August 15, 1945
"A study of the social problems of American life under the guiding light of the social doctrine of the Church must constitute a vital part of the education of our Catholic high school students today. It will be largely through a well informed Catholic populace that American public opinion will be directed toward the acceptance of the Christian solution of contemporary social evils.
“Catholic high school teachers will welcome this long awaited volume of the Social Studies Series that so clearly integrates the study of American society and Christian social principles.”
Charles J. Mahoney, General Editor
Superintendent, Diocese of Rochester
Another quote from the text:
“Their living as individuals, as members of society, as mothers and fathers of families, as business and professional men, as workers, as American citizens, and as members of a Family of Nations, to be successful, must be grounded in Catholic principles.”
Peace,
Ed
From: The Catholic Social Studies Series
Christian Principles and National Problems by Ostheimer and Delaney.
Permissu Superiorum:
Jacobus P. Sweeney, S.J., Provincial
Nihil Obstat:
Arthur J. Scanlon, S.T.D., Censor Librorum
Imprimatur:
Francis J. Spellman, Archbishop
New York, New York
Feast of the Assumption
August 15, 1945
"A study of the social problems of American life under the guiding light of the social doctrine of the Church must constitute a vital part of the education of our Catholic high school students today. It will be largely through a well informed Catholic populace that American public opinion will be directed toward the acceptance of the Christian solution of contemporary social evils.
“Catholic high school teachers will welcome this long awaited volume of the Social Studies Series that so clearly integrates the study of American society and Christian social principles.”
Charles J. Mahoney, General Editor
Superintendent, Diocese of Rochester
Another quote from the text:
“Their living as individuals, as members of society, as mothers and fathers of families, as business and professional men, as workers, as American citizens, and as members of a Family of Nations, to be successful, must be grounded in Catholic principles.”
Peace,
Ed
B
bmonk
Guest
This is my thought. A perfect society is only possible in Heaven, where God will be the law-giver, and we will all have them written in our hearts.I don’t think that kind of society can be found on earth. We will only have something like that in Heaven.
However, back here on Earth, there is no perfect society, because all of us (except persons like Jesus, Mary and John) are sinners, and so laws must not only take into account God’s divine law, but human society.
That is, the Roman Empire had no use for laws regarding computer porn, or the use of motor cars. Modern America does not need laws regarding the fair treatment of slaves. All law must be adapted to the culture that needs that law.
G
GratefulFred
Guest
It seems that a “Christian” nation would have a majority of Christians as its citizens.
But Christian is an elastic word. Just how Christian are we? In name only or in heart and mind?
Christians should understand that none but Christ and His Mother Mary are perfect. All of us do transgress God’s Moral Laws. All of us do sin. Catholic Christians have the Sacrament of Reconciliation where we can privately acknowledge our sins and receive God’s forgiveness.
Much of God’s Moral Law is already written on our hearts - we instinctively know right from wrong in most cases. Much of Man’s Civil Laws - but not all - reenforce God’s Moral Law.
But Christians realize that we do need develop a well trained conscience in order to know right and wrong in complex cases.
Christians, who work at trying to be the best Christians they can be, THEN partake in society. With consciences informed as well as they can be, we partake in the decision making process. We encounter others and we listen and try to understand and try to set rules that MOST citizens, regardless of religion, can comply with so that there is reasonable order in society and MOST can achieve a decent standard of living.
Civil law need not reflect every tenet of Moral Law. We cannot require attendence at every Sunday Mass or other Church service for example.
BUT, there are limits as to what we can vote for, limits as to what we promote as acceptable behaviour. We may get out voted by those who are not Christian or Christian in name only. But our vote should be for what our Christian conscience tells us is truly right in God’s eyes. Our vote should NOT be what we think will be the result and we vote just so we say we are on the winning side even if that side goes against our Christian conscience.
We must vote against proposals that in the long run lead to destructive behaviour. We must vote for what is truly good and not just what is conveinent. We must avoid the temptation to false compassion.
But Christian is an elastic word. Just how Christian are we? In name only or in heart and mind?
Christians should understand that none but Christ and His Mother Mary are perfect. All of us do transgress God’s Moral Laws. All of us do sin. Catholic Christians have the Sacrament of Reconciliation where we can privately acknowledge our sins and receive God’s forgiveness.
Much of God’s Moral Law is already written on our hearts - we instinctively know right from wrong in most cases. Much of Man’s Civil Laws - but not all - reenforce God’s Moral Law.
But Christians realize that we do need develop a well trained conscience in order to know right and wrong in complex cases.
Christians, who work at trying to be the best Christians they can be, THEN partake in society. With consciences informed as well as they can be, we partake in the decision making process. We encounter others and we listen and try to understand and try to set rules that MOST citizens, regardless of religion, can comply with so that there is reasonable order in society and MOST can achieve a decent standard of living.
Civil law need not reflect every tenet of Moral Law. We cannot require attendence at every Sunday Mass or other Church service for example.
BUT, there are limits as to what we can vote for, limits as to what we promote as acceptable behaviour. We may get out voted by those who are not Christian or Christian in name only. But our vote should be for what our Christian conscience tells us is truly right in God’s eyes. Our vote should NOT be what we think will be the result and we vote just so we say we are on the winning side even if that side goes against our Christian conscience.
We must vote against proposals that in the long run lead to destructive behaviour. We must vote for what is truly good and not just what is conveinent. We must avoid the temptation to false compassion.
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