A difficult Annulment Situation

[lizaanne]

I’ll second that!

I’ll third that!

As a side note which may ease your mind a bit - I had a wedding in a Methodist place of worship with my ex. We were together for 10 years, and on our anniversary we had the “marriage” convalidated. One year later, I left him. In the investigation by the Tribunal it was determined that at the time of the convalidation there was a lack of intent, and so the “marriage” was still invalid, in spite of the convalidation attempt.

Everything will be ok in the end — if it’s not ok, then it’s not the end.

~Liza

 

[msugeotech]

That’s an interesting scenario Liza. (Hope that doesn’t come across weird.)

The Judicial Vicar, after I received an affirmative decision, joked with me about the process lasting longer than my first marriage. He explained to me that since my ex didn’t participate, we couldn’t waive any of the built-in time frames that are part of the process and that if she had participated, and basically affirmed what I had testified to, the decision would have been reached much sooner. Oh well.

Process - 1 year, marriage - 2 months.

 

[dulcissima]

That really is an interesting scenario, Lizanne. I have noticed a trend, both in my case and in many that I know on CAF that had been in marriages that were either invalid or not sacramental, and that is that once they took steps to regularize their marriage, or in my case once my now ex was baptized, suddenly the marriage deteriorated so badly that its defects could not be ignored. Before I left him, my priest told me that the grace that is usually there to hold a sacramental marriage together would help me to get out of my marriage. I think he might be right.

 

[lizaanne]

That really is an interesting scenario, Lizanne. I have noticed a trend, both in my case and in many that I know on CAF that had been in marriages that were either invalid or not sacramental, and that is that once they took steps to regularize their marriage, or in my case once my now ex was baptized, suddenly the marriage deteriorated so badly that its defects could not be ignored. Before I left him, my priest told me that the grace that is usually there to hold a sacramental marriage together would help me to get out of my marriage. I think he might be right.

In my case - as I was preparing the house for the celebration following Mass that day, I actually thought to myself “what a joke if we don’t even make it to our next anniversary” - and we didn’t. I was trying to patch up a dying relationship and this was a last hope - not the way to approach a sacrament. And the ex only thought it was an excuse for me to have a party - he did not take it seriously at all. So we both did not have the proper intent for the convalidation, and even if we didn’t see that ourselves, the Tribunal did. God bless them all for the difficult work they do.

~Liza

 

[to_God]

I’ll third that!

As a side note which may ease your mind a bit - I had a wedding in a Methodist place of worship with my ex. We were together for 10 years, and on our anniversary we had the “marriage” convalidated. One year later, I left him. In the investigation by the Tribunal it was determined that at the time of the convalidation there was a lack of intent, and so the “marriage” was still invalid, in spite of the convalidation attempt.

Everything will be ok in the end — if it’s not ok, then it’s not the end.

~Liza

I really like your end quote Liza. I couldn’t agree more. I am hopeful that because at the point of the “convalidation” my fiancee was rushed into it by her then husband because of time constraints, he wasn’t catholic (the priest “made” him catholic by delivering the eucharist on the day of the “convalidation” and nothing else, no RCIA, nothing), she was admittedly on birthcontrol because of her fear to bring children into a then floundering relationship with a person with erratic behavior (so she was not open to children), and because of his pre-existing mental illness he was not able to enter with full knowledge of what a marriage was supposed to be and they had no guidance and no preparation (she did not even know the word convalidation until 1 week ago) that the Tribunal will find it to be an invalid convalidation because of faults, admittedly, on both sides. Her “convalidation” did take place years after then initial protestant marriage too.

Like you said, in the end it will all be ok, because if it isn’t ok, it most certainly is not the end!

Thank you for your support and words! God Bless you!

 

[dulcissima]

I really like your end quote Liza. I couldn’t agree more. I am hopeful that because at the point of the “convalidation” my fiancee was rushed into it by her then husband because of time constraints, he wasn’t catholic (the priest “made” him catholic by delivering the eucharist on the day of the “convalidation” and nothing else, no RCIA, nothing), she was admittedly on birthcontrol because of her fear to bring children into a then floundering relationship with a person with erratic behavior (so she was not open to children), and because of his pre-existing mental illness he was not able to enter with full knowledge of what a marriage was supposed to be and they had no guidance and no preparation (she did not even know the word convalidation until 1 week ago) that the Tribunal will find it to be an invalid convalidation because of faults, admittedly, on both sides. Her “convalidation” did take place years after then initial protestant marriage too.

Like you said, in the end it will all be ok, because if it isn’t ok, it most certainly is not the end!

Thank you for your support and words! God Bless you!

Wow, what was her priest thinking? Did he think he was doing anyone any favors by bending so many rules? I know sometimes it seems like a pain that there is so much preparation to go through in order to get married, but all of those procedures are there for good reason. Her situation hilights the need for going through the proper channels and reciving all of the necessary preparation. I am glad that you realize that it will all be worth it. That speaks volumes about your intentions.

 

[to_God]

Wow, what was her priest thinking? Did he think he was doing anyone any favors by bending so many rules? I know sometimes it seems like a pain that there is so much preparation to go through in order to get married, but all of those procedures are there for good reason. Her situation hilights the need for going through the proper channels and reciving all of the necessary preparation. I am glad that you realize that it will all be worth it. That speaks volumes about your intentions.

I find some fault in what he did, and I do feel some anger toward his short cuts and the repercussions. But I pray about these feelings and know that there is nothing to do about it other than to go forward with the process to make it all right. Everything happens for a reason. My Fiancee looks at her past and realizes how she was manipulated by her ex and how rushing to “make things work” will only lead you to a place of regret. She regrets giving in and not listening to herself. We are pushing forward.

She has obtained her sacramental record from her home parish and the convalidation was not listed! Because I’m newly learning the ways of the Catholic Church, is it common to have convalidations be communicated to your home parish and on the sacrament documentation? We both thought it strange to not have it listed since her last priest said the “convalidation” was documented at his parish and with the governing diocese. To quote her priest at her original (home) parish “You’re still single according to our records.” This all just makes me think something very sketchy happened with her last priest. I am just hoping he did not forge records for the sake of convenience.

In the end everything will be worked out, and even if this takes years, you are correct - this should and will be done through the proper channels and certainly with preparation. We are going to be meeting on a semi-regular basis (as his schedule allows) with our current priest who in just one meeting has won both of us over and is simply an incredible man. He is guiding us through this in such a kind and understanding, though not pulling any punches either!

We are attempting everything in our power to set the past right and to create a blessed beginning when we are allowed and have the open arms of the Church. We’re proceeding with our best!

 

[lizaanne]

You truly sound like an amazing man, and a wonderful and loving fiance, to be so patient and understanding with this process. You will be a good husband to her one day.

~Liza

 

[msugeotech]

Agreed. What a great attitude. I will pray for your situation.

 

[to_God]

Thanks everyone! All prayers are graciously accepted.

 

[1ke]

I really like your end quote Liza. I couldn’t agree more. I am hopeful that because at the point of the “convalidation” my fiancee was rushed into it by her then husband because of time constraints, he wasn’t catholic (the priest “made” him catholic by delivering the eucharist on the day of the “convalidation” and nothing else, no RCIA, nothing), she was admittedly on birthcontrol because of her fear to bring children into a then floundering relationship with a person with erratic behavior (so she was not open to children), and because of his pre-existing mental illness he was not able to enter with full knowledge of what a marriage was supposed to be and they had no guidance and no preparation (she did not even know the word convalidation until 1 week ago) that the Tribunal will find it to be an invalid convalidation because of faults, admittedly, on both sides. Her “convalidation” did take place years after then initial protestant marriage too.

Like you said, in the end it will all be ok, because if it isn’t ok, it most certainly is not the end!

Thank you for your support and words! God Bless you!

I don’t believe a convalidation took place at all. This priest sounds certifiably nuts.

First, if the ex was a non-Catholic, permission for a mixed marriage or disparity of cult dispensation would be necessary before a convalidation could take place. This requires documentation from the Bishop.

Second, a person cannot be “made” Catholic by giving them the Eucharist. A person is received into the Catholic Church when they make a profession of faith and receive the sacraments of Reconciliation, Holy Communion, and Confirmation. And, all of this is recorded in sacramental records.

Third, one cannot convalidate a marriage and not know it. Convalidation requires the giving and receiving of consent and exchange of vows. It requires full knowledge and free will on the part of the couple. If your fiance had no intent to convalidate, it did not happen.

Fourth, in another post you say the convalidation is not listed in the sacramental records. Then, it did not happen.

Stick with your current priest and let him handle everything.

 

[to_God]

I don’t believe a convalidation took place at all. This priest sounds certifiably nuts.

First, if the ex was a non-Catholic, permission for a mixed marriage or disparity of cult dispensation would be necessary before a convalidation could take place. This requires documentation from the Bishop.

Second, a person cannot be “made” Catholic by giving them the Eucharist. A person is received into the Catholic Church when they make a profession of faith and receive the sacraments of Reconciliation, Holy Communion, and Confirmation. And, all of this is recorded in sacramental records.

Third, one cannot convalidate a marriage and not know it. Convalidation requires the giving and receiving of consent and exchange of vows. It requires full knowledge and free will on the part of the couple. If your fiance had no intent to convalidate, it did not happen.

Fourth, in another post you say the convalidation is not listed in the sacramental records. Then, it did not happen.

Stick with your current priest and let him handle everything.

Thanks very much for your reply! I can not argue with anything you’ve said and I feel much the same after researching myself. She did not have permission to be married outside of the church. Her ex never went through RCIA and was never baptized Catholic. The “blessing” ceremony was never called a convalidation. My Fiancee didn’t even know that word until we found it in our research. When she asked her old priest if the ceremony they had was a convalidation he essentially said “Yes” that it was “considered a convalidation.” The only thing that I’m nervous about is what kind of documentation the priest may have about the “ceremony” and if it says convalidation or something of the like on it. In the end, however, these are all just anxieties that are best left in the hands of God. I trust in our priest and am hoping and praying for the best. I believe that the evidence is incontrovertible. In my eyes the convalidation never happened. In our priest’s eyes it never happened. Now I’m praying for the Tribunal to see the same. Even if they consider the ceremony to have been a convalidation, we will proceed forward.

Thank you so very much for your reply. I will keep everyone updated as to the decisions that lie ahead.