A Dying Marriage

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My husband and I have been married for 33 years. It was a good marriage despite desperate financial crises all along the way. We have 9 children, 22 grandchildren plus one on the way and 1 great-grandchild; we are very very blessed. We have weathered many storms, some very serious. Anyway, for the past 5 or 6 years my husband has been unfaithful, if not physically, definitely emotionally. A year ago we had it out and I thought he had curtailed his “friendship” with the other woman, but slowly it is obvious it never stopped and now involves some of our children and grandchildren. He will never go anywhere with me anymore, nor just chit chat. We can go a whole weekend with no more than a word or two here and there, or he is so angry all the time that I just avoid him. What should I do? Should I stay in a loveless marriage or should we part company with no thought of divorce on my part. It would just be peaceful for me to live alone and be who I am. And, no, he is not Catholic. Thank you for any helpful comments.
 
There is a difference between physical and emotional infidelity. But emotional infidelity can become emotional abuse, as it seems to be in your situation. Have you tried counseling? Of course your husband should go too but I’m betting he won’t, so you should at least go for you. You can get a perspective, and sort things out. Thirty-three years is alot to walk away from, but then again, there are worse things than being alone.
 
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makin503:
My husband and I have been married for 33 years. It was a good marriage despite desperate financial crises all along the way. We have 9 children, 22 grandchildren plus one on the way and 1 great-grandchild; we are very very blessed. We have weathered many storms, some very serious. Anyway, for the past 5 or 6 years my husband has been unfaithful, if not physically, definitely emotionally. A year ago we had it out and I thought he had curtailed his “friendship” with the other woman, but slowly it is obvious it never stopped and now involves some of our children and grandchildren. He will never go anywhere with me anymore, nor just chit chat. We can go a whole weekend with no more than a word or two here and there, or he is so angry all the time that I just avoid him. What should I do? Should I stay in a loveless marriage or should we part company with no thought of divorce on my part. It would just be peaceful for me to live alone and be who I am. And, no, he is not Catholic. Thank you for any helpful comments.
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I am so sorry friend. My husband was also “emotionally unfaithful”, and I have been married 17 years. My piece of advice for you is YES of course stay in your marriage. TRY to be a Godly woman and focus on your committment you made to your honey 33 yrs. ago. We cannot control another, but we are called to be faithful ourselves. Let God deal with him. And He will. I can only say you must, as I must, take care of ourselves. Perhaps join a women’s bible study, be a mentor to some young women in your parish, who need you and your wisdom, help the needy. God will use you in so many ways. It is never worth throwing away a marriage no matter how many years for the sake of OUR unhappiness. Offer it up…I try to do the same. I know it is so hard, when you’re hurt, but I just know God has a plan, your H will see what a wonderful Godly woman you are, and God will convict his soul sooner or later. I just know it. God Bless You~~
Luv, Sparkle
 
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makin503:
My husband and I have been married for 33 years. It was a good marriage despite desperate financial crises all along the way. We have 9 children, 22 grandchildren plus one on the way and 1 great-grandchild; we are very very blessed. We have weathered many storms, some very serious. Anyway, for the past 5 or 6 years my husband has been unfaithful, if not physically, definitely emotionally. A year ago we had it out and I thought he had curtailed his “friendship” with the other woman, but slowly it is obvious it never stopped and now involves some of our children and grandchildren. He will never go anywhere with me anymore, nor just chit chat. We can go a whole weekend with no more than a word or two here and there, or he is so angry all the time that I just avoid him. What should I do? Should I stay in a loveless marriage or should we part company with no thought of divorce on my part. It would just be peaceful for me to live alone and be who I am. And, no, he is not Catholic. Thank you for any helpful comments.
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Has he articulated what he is so angry about?

If not, what is your best guess?
 
Others have referred to Catholic resources. Here are some resources that aren’t specifically Catholic, although the Catholics have made adaptations and seminars based on the Five Love Languages.

One good book is “The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to your Mate” which clearly a friend of mine would benefit from if he’d even let his wife read it. They are married with three kids, but are only “civil” to each other because she doesn’t appreciate what he does, and he doesn’t see how much she loves him. At least from his point of view she doesn’t appreciate what he does.

As far as physical v emotional infidelity, that is a fascinating topic. I never realized how different men and women looked at things until years back, after hearing the author on the radio, I bought a book “The Dangerous Passion: Why Jealousy Is As Necessary as Love and Sex” and like most books, just read part of it.

Caution: if you go ballistic about evolution v creation, you will probably not like this book. The book accurately notes one undisputable fact, though. Every one of our ancestors lived long enough to succeed in one thing: they reproduced.

One fascinating tidbit I took from that book was the views on emotional v physical infidelity. It seemed that women may tend to view emotional infidelity as “worse” than purely physical. Men tend to view physical infidelity as way more problematic than emotional.

I believe the part about men is right, anyway. Physical infidelity and everybody knows you’re a heel. Emotional attachment is too abstract for most men to have a handle on anyway.

Actually, your husband sounds a whole lot like my friend. He is not getting what he wants from her (in his case, recognition for What He Gives Up For Her) and it finally got to the point where they are operating as “brother and sister” but the anger is there, only suppressed. He has gone to bars and “danced” with waitresses, but he would never “go all the way.” He won’t even let me give his wife the “Five Love Languages” (BTW she is really nice, and their kids are precious through all this) because he has gotten to a system that he has resigned himself for the rest of his life.

I’m worried that this life cannot be sustained, and that it may get worse. The worst thing about it is, his wife clearly adores him and thinks he’s the greatest, but she doesn’t seem to be able to deal with a couple of his obvious weaknesses without him becoming defensive.

Honestly, I have tried to tell him how much his wife obviously adores him, but I don’t think he believes it because she doesn’t seem to show it. So there they are. It isn’t like this guy’s a lose. He has a master’s degree in engineering and has a good job – which incidentally I trained him for, then I got laid off. :eek:

I may have to call in a “higher power.” My wife and his are acquaintences, but I’ll start bringing her over more often. She can go to work on the wife while I keep working with the husband! 🙂

Alan
 
I want to thank all of you for your ideas, prayers, resources and kind words. I’ll check out all the links you’ve sent. Alot of his anger is over finances. He blames everyone and everything that we are so strapped. He won’t take responsibility that he has lost 3 jobs in the past 5 years, and he resents those “who have” because they should be sending some his way. He’s really only happy when he’s outdoors working on yards or “her” place. I can’t imagine leaving him or our home so will gladly try more options. Thank you and God Bless You All.
 
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makin503:
I want to thank all of you for your ideas, prayers, resources and kind words. I’ll check out all the links you’ve sent. Alot of his anger is over finances. He blames everyone and everything that we are so strapped. He won’t take responsibility that he has lost 3 jobs in the past 5 years, and he resents those “who have” because they should be sending some his way. He’s really only happy when he’s outdoors working on yards or “her” place. I can’t imagine leaving him or our home so will gladly try more options. Thank you and God Bless You All.
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Oh, wow. After a long unemployment and mental illness, I see some parallels here in your story to my own. That’s not necessarily a “bad” thing, based on what you’ve said it just might be a clue into why he’s acting this way. It sounds almost more like depression or something than lustful wanderings or something like that.

I invite you to send me PM or email if you want to discuss that aspect of it further, or just post publicly. I will not mention this again in this thread unless you bring it up, so you do not have to answer this question, or indeed this post, in public.

Alan
 
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makin503:
I want to thank all of you for your ideas, prayers, resources and kind words. I’ll check out all the links you’ve sent. Alot of his anger is over finances. He blames everyone and everything that we are so strapped. He won’t take responsibility that he has lost 3 jobs in the past 5 years, and he resents those “who have” because they should be sending some his way. He’s really only happy when he’s outdoors working on yards or “her” place. I can’t imagine leaving him or our home so will gladly try more options. Thank you and God Bless You All.
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Yes, I understand this most closely. My H as well, can’t quite “make it” financially either, he’s been fired from about 10 jobs in the past 15 years,:confused: and basically is very irresponsible. I think this is solely HIS issue and one HE needs to face. I’m stayin out of it. The sad thing is it drags the whole family down with him, but I’ve “offered it up” given it to God and am willing to move into an apt. if he feels this is how low it’s gotten. We wives, just have to support our men, I think, emotionally and encouragingly more than anything, not financially. This is my opinion. Then again, I know as a wife and mom, this is my territory, my responsibility to clean, make meals and be the general caretaker of my home. I’ve come to accept God gave us roles for a reason. Some marriages however, might work rather nicely on perhaps the opposite–where wife is a high power career woman, and dad stays home. If it works for them, I don’t knock it however, but I don’t think it’s very healthy. Resentment is bound to set in, I think with this arrangement sooner or later. But maybe not. Don’t ever cease encouraging your hubby, even after 33 yrs.!!! Have you read the book “Fascinating Womanhood”? I really recommend it. www.fascinatingwomanhood.net.
 
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makin503:
He’s really only happy when he’s outdoors working on yards
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Maybe that is it. Or part of it. Maybe he should try landscaping as a job. He may be old for it, but so what.

Are your kids out of the house? Are you supporting anyone else. Maybe try telling him if he is happiest working yards, he should try making money doing it.
 
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amcalabrese:
Maybe that is it. Or part of it. Maybe he should try landscaping as a job. He may be old for it, but so what.

Are your kids out of the house? Are you supporting anyone else. Maybe try telling him if he is happiest working yards, he should try making money doing it.
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If there is some depression involved, and I’m not saying there is, there could be another explanation, with possibly the same resultant advice.

I was a senior engineer with Bell Labs. I loved the work, but it helped drive me nuts because of the ambiguity involved in what I was supposed to be doing at any given time; e.g. what they said to do, or what I think they really expect.

To an intelligent, depressed person, yardwork is cool because it doesn’t involve decisions or (usually) too many interpersonal issues. When life gets a certain amount complicated, some men “shut down” almost to being catatonic or something (not clinically; just as metaphor) so they won’t do anything at all.

Yard work also is easy to see what has to be done, then to see the results of what one has done. People who work jobs like I had often are bothered because the “results” are just intangible metrics that most all of us know are misleading anyway, so there is no satisfaction.

My psychiatrist even went so far as to suggest I might get a job writing software or something and only have to interact with a machine.

Rituals are comforting; decisions are hell. Simple decisions, especially, and fear about making them and plans gone wrong.

Just some brainstorming triggered by your description of his behavior; please take it fwiw, from some person on the Internet.

The only time I really became desperate was not when I questioned my faith, but lost my hope. If you have no hope, there really is nothing to live for except the glimmer of a chance that by continuing to live you are keeping your options open.

May God Bless you; the Good News is that this can all be healed. Keep faith, and trust that whatever happens, God is with you.

Alan
 
You’re all so awesome! Yes, I think he is very depressed but will not go to counseling. Our children are grown and out of the house but we do have custody of a 6-year old granddaughter. I pray every day for him and pray for a conversion. He is a landscaper by trade but hasn’t brought in near as much money as his jobs paid. I’ll keep plodding away with him, I know my place is here. THANK YOU ALL and I will pray for you too who have shared your trials with me. God Be With Us.
 
I would hazard a guess that his anger and withdrawl are at least in part sourced by his infidelity.

There are always a number of options.
  1. Act like absolutely nothing is changed. tends to drive them nuts.
  2. Get counseling, with or without him. It will at least help you cope, and give you options and a reelief valve.
  3. Love him to death - favorite food, encourage his friends to do things with him, buy him a gift that relates to his favorite hobbies, treat him like a king. If nothing else, it will extract a minimum of revenge, as no one in the wrong, wanting to pick a fight, likes to be treated as if their behavior was deserving of the treatment. Also tends to drive them nuts.
  4. Tell him the name of your divorce attorney (and while you are at it, get the name of one known for cleaning the other side’s clock), and invite him to go with you to an appointment with the attorney.
That is a road that you may well not want to walk; but if you have to, walk it with your head held high.

Whatever you do, keep your children out of it. there is nothing worse than being put in the spot of having to choose sides, and you do not have the right to inflict that on your children. This is your fight, not theirs.
  1. Do the flip side of treating him like a king. Stop making his meals. Stop doing his laundry. Move his clothes into the spare bedroom. Go visit your friends. Whatever; treat him like a non-entity. This too, can backfire, but sometimes it gets them off their duff; he’s just taking you for granted and taking advantage of you.
 
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otm:
  1. Tell him the name of your divorce attorney (and while you are at it, get the name of one known for cleaning the other side’s clock), and invite him to go with you to an appointment with the attorney.
That is a road that you may well not want to walk; but if you have to, walk it with your head held high.
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One thing about this option, speaking totally as just “a guy” without any professional experience in this matter.

IMO, do NOT take this path unless you are completely prepared to follow through, and do not intend to reconcile. If my wife or I ever honestly threatened to bring other people (such as the law) in between us, as far as I’m concerned it’s over and the rest is just details.

If it is a bluff to “wake him up” then bluff at your own risk. If you have to scare him with legal action then be prepared to scare him away, not scare him toward you.
Whatever you do, keep your children out of it. there is nothing worse than being put in the spot of having to choose sides, and you do not have the right to inflict that on your children. This is your fight, not theirs.
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Amen! I had a piano student once whose parents played her against each other. It was awful.
  1. Do the flip side of treating him like a king. Stop making his meals. Stop doing his laundry. Move his clothes into the spare bedroom. Go visit your friends. Whatever; treat him like a non-entity. This too, can backfire, but sometimes it gets them off their duff; he’s just taking you for granted and taking advantage of you.
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Stop being a wife since he’s not a husband? Hmmm… interesting idea.

Alan
 
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otm:
I would hazard a guess that his anger and withdrawl are at least in part sourced by his infidelity.

There are always a number of options.
  1. Act like absolutely nothing is changed. tends to drive them nuts.
  2. Get counseling, with or without him. It will at least help you cope, and give you options and a reelief valve.
  3. Love him to death - favorite food, encourage his friends to do things with him, buy him a gift that relates to his favorite hobbies, treat him like a king. If nothing else, it will extract a minimum of revenge, as no one in the wrong, wanting to pick a fight, likes to be treated as if their behavior was deserving of the treatment. Also tends to drive them nuts.
  4. Tell him the name of your divorce attorney (and while you are at it, get the name of one known for cleaning the other side’s clock), and invite him to go with you to an appointment with the attorney.
That is a road that you may well not want to walk; but if you have to, walk it with your head held high.

Whatever you do, keep your children out of it. there is nothing worse than being put in the spot of having to choose sides, and you do not have the right to inflict that on your children. This is your fight, not theirs.
  1. Do the flip side of treating him like a king. Stop making his meals. Stop doing his laundry. Move his clothes into the spare bedroom. Go visit your friends. Whatever; treat him like a non-entity. This too, can backfire, but sometimes it gets them off their duff; he’s just taking you for granted and taking advantage of you.
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No way to #4. Threats will send the message you don’t respect him. Get the Love and Respect book I posted. A man needs respect and support. Just how powerful the respect issue is indicated in this book. Something like 75% of men responded that they would rather live alone unloved, than be disrespected.
 
Buffalo and Alan:

You both have good points.

Reread the initial post; he has had an ongoing affair, at least emotional, if not physical, and he is angry, rejecting her as an individual (let alone a wife), possibly carrying on the affair, and may simply be living a double life because of the economic consequences of a divorce.

Long term marriage, and unless she has had a career (and it sounds as if she hasn’t), he will be in for permanent spousal support. I suspect he is fully aware of that point. He wants out, he is mentally, socially, spiritually and psychologically out already. 5 years, guys. Not some dalliance of a couple of months, with still some hope he can get it back on the level.

I make my point of number 4 for a couple of reasons. One is that, contrary to your statements, some people need a dose of reality therapy to get their head out of their… hip pocket. Some would react with a “fine, let’s do it”. However, some would react with “oops, that’s most definitely a path I don’t want to tread”.

I am not suggesting that she run off, get a divorce, apply for an annulment, find Mr. “right” and live happily ever after.

I am suggesting that the living hell she is in, with the cold and distant emotional abuse she is taking, needs to be addressed. One of the ways to do that is to tell him, in no uncertain terms, “Do your business or get off the pot!”. She has a moral right to demand that he treat her with at least a minimum of respect; not emotional “love”, but the mere civility owed to someone you have spent 33 years with.

Living alone only replaces one set of issues with another. But at least in living alone, one can have one’s rightful dignity as a human being.

You are right, that she should not take the step unless she is willing to follow through.

However, I will state what I have so often told people in an untenable situation: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is a pretty good definition of insanity. It is past time for a change.

She is not his doormat. she needs to stop acting like it, and stop being treated like it.

He’s getting his meals cooked, his floors washed, his laundry done, his sheets changed; I wouldn’t be suprised if she pays the bills and handles the finances.

And he’s got his sugar. She needs to quit eating crow. Time for a change of diet, however it is done. Maybe she uses honey, maybe she uses vinegar. But letting him continue to have his sugar is not healthy for either of their diets, and crow is not healthy for her state of mind…
 
Pray the Divine Mercy chaplet every day inserting your husband’s name.

You have been given an opportunity for sainthood so regard it as a form of martyrdom and stick with it willingly and cheerfully. Yes, I KNOW it is hard. My situation is SOOO similar.

The funny thing is that, since I accepted my Cross willingly and gave God thanks, I have become a happier, less stressed person.
 
Buy the Love and Respect book - read it yourself, then ask him to read it. If he doesn’t break down crying I will be surprised. I guarantee he will find himself in the book.

Guranteed!!!.
 
Reread the initial post; he has had an ongoing affair, at least emotional, if not physical, and he is angry, rejecting her as an individual (let alone a wife), possibly carrying on the affair, and may simply be living a double life because of the economic consequences of a divorce.
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Long term marriage, and unless she has had a career (and it sounds as if she hasn’t), he will be in for permanent spousal support. I suspect he is fully aware of that point. He wants out, he is mentally, socially, spiritually and psychologically out already. 5 years, guys. Not some dalliance of a couple of months, with still some hope he can get it back on the level.
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I make my point of number 4 for a couple of reasons. One is that, contrary to your statements, some people need a dose of reality therapy to get their head out of their… hip pocket. Some would react with a “fine, let’s do it”. However, some would react with “oops, that’s most definitely a path I don’t want to tread”.
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Exactly. Buffalo, he may want respect, but he has not earned that respect; in fact, he has done almost everything he can to lose his wife’s love, respect and admiration of him.He is giving her NO respect, and I believe many women would also rather live alone than live with someone who didn’t respect them. It’s not a man thing.
 
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