A fanatic archetype in the Bible

[chrpenka]

I suppose that every fanatical behaviour has its root in the original sin.

Do you know about any person in the Bible who could be described as a fanatic?

It would help me to understand the situation in my family.

My sister and her husband are under the influence of one “so called” prophet, who is saying that Jesus is talking directly to him. And it has caused so many wounded feelings, disappontment in our family, in my life too.

Just to illustrate it on one example. This man who is calling himself a prophet wanted me to come to him and to listen to him. Every time I asked my sister what she would like for Christmas or her birthday her only answer was that it would be her biggest joy if I visit “her best friend”. I kept saying no. It went for years. Finally, that man got fed up but also said if I would have not visited him till the end of 2010 my life was getting ruined and I would have no access to Jesus at all. … Such a thing only a fanatic can say, in my opinion. My sister gave me once a small paper where she wrote what “her propthet” was telling me. It was again that I should have come to him. When I put this paper into the rubbish bin, my sister came to me and deadly seriously said that this message was directly from Jesus and that I should not deal with this paper like this…

If I know about any similar story in the Bible, about someone who is a fanatic I am sure it would help me.

God bless you all.

 

[Barbkw]

“Finally, that man got fed up …said if I would have not visited him till the end of 2010 my life was getting ruined and I would have no access to Jesus at all.”

The man needs mental help and your prayers. In no way whatsoever is he preaching the Gospel.

 

[Black_Knight]

Let me share with you something that you might pass on to your sister and take some comfort from.

[bibledrb]Deuteronomy 18:20-22[/bibledrb]

 

[Vince1022]

Do you know about any person in the Bible who could be described as a fanatic?

Jesus.

Paul.

Any of the Prophets.

Just some examples.

 

[EricFilmer]

Do you know about any person in the Bible who could be described as a fanatic?

The Zealots of the New Testament were…
thefreedictionary.com/zealot

One of the Apostles was a Zealot (Simon, but not the same Simon who became Peter) and obviously he had to give up a militaristic & political view of salvation in order to embrace the salvation that Jesus brings. Perhaps you can point out to your sister that the Zealots (aside from Simon) were so focused on their own interpretations of Scripture (regarding the attributes of the Messiah) and their own desires (to be freed from Rome) that they did not pay attention to what Christ truly taught. The Zealot movement of the first century eventually led to the Jewish War against Rome, which resulted in massive deaths and destruction. The Jews were defeated by the Roman Legions and the Temple was destroyed.

My sister and her husband are under the influence of one “so called” prophet, who is saying that Jesus is talking directly to him. And it has caused so many wounded feelings, disappontment in our family, in my life too…

This man who is calling himself a prophet…

Finally, that man got fed up but also said if I would have not visited him till the end of 2010 my life was getting ruined and I would have no access to Jesus at all. … Such a thing only a fanatic can say, in my opinion.

Right you are chrpenka, and not only that, such are the things that cult leaders say. Cult leaders not only claim to be prophets, but they want to insure their followers’ obedience by claiming a special and unique relationship with God. I watched a program on the History Channel once (I think it was this one: shop.history.com/detail.php?p=104878) and it demonstrated all the craziness and even abuse that people put up with in order to be part of a cult. The reason they put up with it is because they believe that the cult leader was their only true access to God. Therefore, if they dropped out of the cult, they would forfeit their salvation. Sounds like the stuff your sister’s “prophet” is saying, doesn’t it?

Even though their are hundreds of cults around the world, they generally tend to follow a certain pattern. What the followers see as a prophet with a special and unique relationship with God is, in reality, a mentally ill person who needs to have followers to support his ego and affirm his delusions. In light of all this, such cult leaders resort to certain psychological tactics in order to perpetuate belief and obedience among their followers. For example, consider reading this short article, and especially take note the information in the shaded box. More than likely the cult your sister attends meets most, if not all, of the criteria in the shaded box. The information in that shaded box represents the psychological tactics I’m talking about.

digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1124&context=sor_fac_pubs

To give you an idea of how prevalent this problem is in the world today, go to Google and do a search for the terms “cult” and “access to God.” That is how I found the above article, and it was one of well over 3 million hits.

This is not to say that the cult leader your sister is following is as dangerous as Jim Jones or Charles Manson. But he is obviously spiritually dangerous even if not physically so. Plus, if his cult grows, his psychosis may grow with it, and in time he may become as dangerous as the others.

In light of all this, you may want to try having a frank discussion with your sister and her husband. showing them the documentation concerning cult leaders and how they operate. Show them that their prophet is simply one of hundreds of people making the same claims, as well as the psychological tactics they use to enforce obedience and devotion. Show them that what their “prophet” says and does comes right out of a veritable play-book of “How to be a Cult Leader.”

Furthermore, point out that not all these people necessarily do such things in extreme ways (such as making everyone live on a secluded ranch and do mock suicide drills). But it is the basic elements that define a cult (such as the information in the shaded box in that article) and not the rare extreme examples. In other words, a cult leader does not have to be a full-blown Jim Jones or David Koresh to ruin people’s spirituality and disrupt families.

Plus, because a cult leader is probably suffering from mental illnesses, the devotion of his followers is actually damaging him, because it reinforces their delusions and hampers them from getting the help they need from mental health professionals.

And let me also add that not every cult leader has mental problems. Some are scam artists who are putting on an act in order to get donations from their followers. Nevertheless, they resort to the same tactics that the mentally ill cult leaders use.

Finally (and this probably goes without saying) it is important to engage this situation with prayer. Pray for this man and his followers (including, of course your sister and her husband) that they will all come to know the truth and wisdom of Christ. Pray that the will of Christ be done in their lives. Pray that they be the saintly men and women that Christ wants them to be. Pray that they all receive the guidance and help that they truly need.

 

[chrpenka]

Eric,

thank you for your post. The day after I posted this thread I found also an answer in 1 John 4,4: Little children, you are from God, and have conquered them (false prophets, in 1 John 4,1) ; for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

Thank you for your comments about a cult.
It is surely good to read this. Facing this situation every time I go home to the house where I grew up and seeing this “cult” in action there it is really a challenge. Every time. (My sister lives with her husband and children in my parent´s house) …

However, “the one who is in you is greater than the one sho is in the world” .

God bless you.

 

[EricFilmer]

Eric,

thank you for your post. The day after I posted this thread I found also an answer in 1 John 4,4: Little children, you are from God, and have conquered them (false prophets, in 1 John 4,1) ; for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

Thank you for your comments about a cult.
It is surely good to read this. Facing this situation every time I go home to the house where I grew up and seeing this “cult” in action there it is really a challenge. Every time. (My sister lives with her husband and children in my parent´s house) …

However, “the one who is in you is greater than the one sho is in the world” .

God bless you.

I think you are on the right track in focusing on 1John. In addition to what you quoted, I spotted some other statements therein which dispel the notion of a modern day “prophet” claiming to provide people with a unique access to God’s salvation. I will try to post some of what I found later.

But for now let me add to this conversation by quoting the Gospel of John and the Book of Deuteronomy. Keep in mind that usually cult leaders claim to be prophets through whom God imparted hidden knowledge about salvation. Therefore, their followers are made to feel that they need to be with the leader in order to have access to this knowledge (and, consequently, be saved).

“For this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear and do it?’ But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.” (Deut. 30:11-14, RSV)

So in Deuteronomy God shows that he does not deal with humans in hidden ways. It is also worth noting that although God sends prophets, his true prophets always conduct openly public ministries.

“The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. Jesus answered him, ‘I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly’.” (John 18:19-20, RSV, emphasis added)

Here we see that the concept expressed in Deuteronomy is clearly stated by Christ himself. Does the “prophet” your sister follow claim that Jesus “speaks openly to the world” and “not in secret”? Evidently not, if he says that people have to specifically belong to his group and listen to his private teachings in order to be saved.

Therefore, these may be some good points to share with your sister.

 

[chrpenka]

“The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. Jesus answered him, ‘I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly’.” (John 18:19-20, RSV, emphasis added)

Thank you for this.

My sister needs tangible facts. If I come to her with the evidence “only” from the Bible, I know that her “prophet” will give her 100 other quotes from the Bible too and at this moment she is listening to him only.

I got this “crazy” idea. This “prophet” has got his page on the Facebook. Do you think it is worth trying to contact all his friends there and simply tell them my story. And then to ask them what positive/negative experience they have with this man? In other words to make “a research” and than to bring these answers to my sister. I am sure that more people experience what my sister (psychological tactic) but they are not able to talk about it.

This is just a thought.

 

[vz71]

I got this “crazy” idea. This “prophet” has got his page on the Facebook. Do you think it is worth trying to contact all his friends there and simply tell them my story. And then to ask them what positive/negative experience they have with this man? In other words to make “a research” and than to bring these answers to my sister. I am sure that more people experience what my sister (psychological tactic) but they are not able to talk about it.

This is just a thought.

I would start with this endless stream of messages the man is sending to you.
I am sure that a number of what is written can be shown false.
That combined with a few bible references concerning prophets that provide false information should put a fairly large dent in any confidence your sister has in him.

The facebook page may be good if it contains his ‘prophecies’ but I would forget the opinions.