A friend mocked God in my home

[Peace-bwu]

:crying: Yesterday I had a person whom I thought was a Catholic friend begin to debate me while visiting my home. I knew she has been exploring the New Age ideas, but thought it was simply to inform herself. I didn’t know that she has been deep into practicing it for years until yesterday.

I now realize she has been trying to convert me to this. When I explained that I do not believe in reincarnation and why, she seemed to become upset. She believes there is no heaven or hell, no real sin or evil. She asked if I were disappointed that I could not be a priest and I said “no, I have a vocation, as a wife and mother. Jesus had women with him in his ministry and treated them with respect and equality but did not make any of them priests.” She laughed at me.

I think this was triggered by the fact that I went to the March for Life in DC. She says she is prolife but I think she must believe that it is not that big of a deal because of reincarnation.

She was mocking me, but in reality she was not mocking me she was mocking Jesus, because everything she was mocking about me are qualities that are not me, but brought about by the grace of God. I treated her with much kindness and calmly answered her questions but she was very mocking, treating me like I am somehow “less evolved.” Saying things like “I am boggling your mind with theological debate” as if I am too weak to handle debate. I tried to explain that I debate these things online for fun. Debate doesn’t bother me, but she was a little more personal than that.

I feel a little hurt, but most importantly I feel that in my desire to have a friend for myself and my children that I allowed this apostasy into my home, that someone I considered a very good friend would stand in my home and blaspheme God, with very little respect for me or my home and family.

I have begun to realize that the New Age movement is so tantalizing because the leaders promote themselves and followers as more evolved souls… anyone who reads it and buys into it comes to believe they are more evolved than everyone else.

In her view, because I am a devout Catholic, I am “less evolved” foolish and something to be mocked for, as she put it, following Christianity the perfect religion for slaves. When I mentioned following God’s will at one point she said that the Christian God is a megalomaniac. She says she is a pantheistic, New Age Catholic. Before anyone asks, yes she goes to Mass and receives the Eucharist and apparently says the creed. She says she is Catholic by birth so her soul has something to learn from it and if she stays she may help to change the Church.

I care about her and her children very much, but certainly I will protect my family from this. I prayed from a spiritual warfare prayer book over my children last night as they slept and to myself, to denounce the occult, witchcraft, etc. I will pray for her. I must admit that mental illness may be playing a part in this, because she seems to be *obsessed *with the enneagram.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Did you ever become very close friends with someone only to find out they really don’t respect you at all, but are hoping to change you? Or have you ever become friends with a fellow Catholic only to have them tell you something like this?

 

[SemperJase]

Peace-bwu:

I feel a little hurt, but most importantly I feel that in my desire to have a friend for myself and my children that I allowed this apostasy into my home, that someone I considered a very good friend would stand in my home and blaspheme God, with very little respect for me or my home and family.

Your guilt is misplaced. You did not invite apostasy into your home. Your “friend” brought it in under false pretenses. That is her failing, not yours.

Your desire to have a friend is Godly. God made us all with the desire for companionship. Showing her hospitality was a righteous thing to do. Sadly, she rejected your hospitality by mocking you and God. That isn’t your fault.

When tested, you stood up for your beliefs. You did not abandon God for the sake of this person’s friendship. In the end (and the beginning for that matter), you did the right thing. So ignore that feeling of guilt. It is not from God. Do not allow the deceiver to make you think you failed when you did no such thing.

 

[MorningDove]

I would simply state to her: “If you wish to be my friend you will have to respect my faith and keep your opinions to yourself, if you cannot I am afraid this friendship will perhaps have to cease and we will have to be civil acquaintances.”

It was her choice to head to the golden calf, and all we can do is pray that she will see the light. Until then, all you can do is continue following your own faith and be an example to her without having to say anything.

 

[asquared]

your experience with your friend illustrates better than anything why New Age “spiritualities” (they don’t do religion) are wrong, even when they are so tantalizing and attractive. Their basis is pride and narcissism, two characteristics contrary to real spirituality.

 

[Cupofkindness]

We all have to let go of friendships through out life since our fundamental commitments demand that we use our time carefully. Most people I know only have one or two really close friends, the rest are happy aquaintances. Peace, let this friend go. Don’t anything to her, just keep her at a distance and please don’t invite her to your home until she matures considerably, that is, when she grows out of her juvenile need to put down the profound religious devotion of a friend. You are not responsible for her soul, nor feel guilty, for how could you know what she has become without this happening? Find a friend who will support your faith and that relationship will serve you and your family well throughout the years.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Thank you all for your advice. I think that the guilt I felt at first was a healthy guilt. I was feeling that way for awhile because I knew she was into this but didn’t know how far. I assumed not too for because she is a “practicing” Catholic. When I recognized where the guilt was coming from I changed that night. Hopefully it won’t return but I am now batteling the feeling of helplessness at protecting my children from ever getting into anything like this (New Age) as they grow up. I felt that way to day while brushing my daughter’s hair, a sadness. I recognized it as temptation… and certainly not from God.

She let me borrow a book about the enneagram and it was interesting as a psychological theory, but I soon realized that she is living with it as someone would live with the Gospel. It is the first time I have met someone who knows and understands the Catholic Faith, but has turned* intentionally* and knowingly against it. I have met plenty of people who are no longer practicing Cathholics but are not actively going against the Church, I have met people who do not understand Catholic teaching and are against it. But this is my first experience wth intentional heresy and apostasy… I am sure God has a lesson for me.

I will put her family and mine, in the hands of the Lord.

 

[CatholicSam]

It is wonderful that you care more about Jesus than having friends. This may have been His way of calling you in a special way to pray for those mislead by the new age movement. Is this one of the missions God has picked out for you? Maybe

 

[LynnieLew]

As someone who had to end a friendship over similar reasons I empathize with you. All you can do is pray for them and be the best role model for Catholicism.
I wish you great peace and kuddos for putting your faith in Christ before earthy comfort.
Peace to you,
LynnieLew

 

[Peace-bwu]

CatholicSam:

It is wonderful that you care more about Jesus than having friends. This may have been His way of calling you in a special way to pray for those mislead by the new age movement. Is this one of the missions God has picked out for you? Maybe

I think so too. I didn’t realize how seductive the ideas are until now. I also didn’t realize how it has infiltrated it’s way into the Church.

 

[Eileen_T]

LynnieLew:

As someone who had to end a friendship over similar reasons I empathize with you. All you can do is pray for them and be the best role model for Catholicism.
I wish you great peace and kuddos for putting your faith in Christ before earthy comfort.
Peace to you, LynnieLew

I had a similar experience with a friend who ended her marriage (for a just reason) and later took up with another man. She had been a very good friend to me and had helped me in a time of need.

She said, “Surely God wouldn’t expect me to be celibate for the rest of my life?” My heart was in my mouth and I felt distressed, realising that our friendship could end, but I had to say, “Yes, He does.”

She is now with another man and I still go and visit her. She knows how I feel and what I believe about her situation and how she is sinning but she accepts my friendship because she knows I care about her.

I believe that she knows that what she is doing is wrong in God’s eyes and she respects that I will not compromise my beliefs in order to retain our friendship. Having let her know how I stand, I don’t preach to her. I keep the door open so that, if,in the future things go sadly wrong for her, she knows I will always be here for her.

 

[she_he]

LynnieLew:

As someone who had to end a friendship over similar reasons I empathize with you. All you can do is pray for them and be the best role model for Catholicism.
I wish you great peace and kuddos for putting your faith in Christ before earthy comfort.
Peace to you,
LynnieLew

I see a lot of folks believe that a friend is only a friend if they believe as you do! and if not throw them away, I am sure glad Jesus didnt feel this way,he would have thrown me away a very long time ago.
Instead he waited for me and stuck with me,till i finally came around.
a “friend” is someone whom is there when you need them, when you dont, when they need YOU, and when they dont, they pick you up and brush you off when you fall and you should also resond the same way,they offer a shoulder to shed your tears on.
are NON JUDGEMENTAL. Yet a lot of you seem to think of a friend as someone for yourselves,to hell with them when they are not on the right path. Breaking up a friendship over religious beliefs is rediculous,if you cant agree on specifics you agree to not bring them up,

I admit it was wrong of this person to mock your faith in YOUR home, but none of us are blessed with “PERFECTION”
what happened to your “Catholic belief of FORGIVENESS”
or does this not apply in this case because its against what we believe?
ASK YOURSELF THIS, What would Jesus do? would he dismiss us? NO he wouldnt,
would he still be waiting there for us as a friend whenever we messed up (as we all do constantly)? YES.
I believe Jesus was nailed to that cross esspecially because he befriended People whom were not faithful.
so by dismissing a friend whom dont share the same faith as we do, WE ARE MOCKING JESUS.

next time this person wants to “push” thier faith just tell them you really dont want to discuss religion as if offends your beliefs,
on the other hand you cannot “push” your faith on her.
Or better yet meet on a picnic for such conversations in a Nuetral
place so noone is offended…

My normal 2 cents
John

 

[ReginaNova]

Peace-bwu:

She says she is Catholic by birth so her soul has something to learn from it and if she stays she may help to change the Church.

AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!! :banghead:

Peace-bwu:

I must admit that mental illness may be playing a part in this, because she seems to be *obsessed *with the enneagram.

What is an “enneagram”?

 

[Peace-bwu]

she_he:

I see a lot of folks believe that a friend is only a friend if they believe as you do! and if not throw them away, I am sure glad Jesus didnt feel this way,he would have thrown me away a very long time ago.
Instead he waited for me and stuck with me,till i finally came around.
a “friend” is someone whom is there when you need them, when you dont, when they need YOU, and when they dont, they pick you up and brush you off when you fall and you should also resond the same way,they offer a shoulder to shed your tears on.
are NON JUDGEMENTAL. Yet a lot of you seem to think of a friend as someone for yourselves,to hell with them when they are not on the right path. Breaking up a friendship over religious beliefs is rediculous,if you cant agree on specifics you agree to not bring them up,

I admit it was wrong of this person to mock your faith in YOUR home, but none of us are blessed with “PERFECTION”
what happened to your “Catholic belief of FORGIVENESS”
or does this not apply in this case because its against what we believe?
ASK YOURSELF THIS, What would Jesus do? would he dismiss us? NO he wouldnt,
would he still be waiting there for us as a friend whenever we messed up (as we all do constantly)? YES.
I believe Jesus was nailed to that cross esspecially because he befriended People whom were not faithful.
so by dismissing a friend whom dont share the same faith as we do, WE ARE MOCKING JESUS.

next time this person wants to “push” thier faith just tell them you really dont want to discuss religion as if offends your beliefs,
on the other hand you cannot “push” your faith on her.
Or better yet meet on a picnic for such conversations in a Nuetral
place so noone is offended…

My normal 2 cents

John

I think you misunderstood here. I have not pushed my faith on her at all. It is my friend who is trying to change me in a *very *judgemental way. We have known each other for a few months and I have been extremely patient as she talks about these things, but when a person can’t accept me for who I am and quite literally mocks my way of life and beliefs, that isnt’ much of a friend is it? I am not the one behaving this way. I have been very patient as she talks about using tarot cards, saying there is no heaven or hell, bashing PJ II, even then I thought I could see beyond to a person who is struggling to make sense of the world… but with this conversation I wrote about I got a whole new sense of spitefulness and hate from her. There is something more at play here than I realized before. When it comes to the occult and witchcraft, I have my children to protect. They are my top responsibility. If I didn’t have children I might try to continue the friendship and dialogue, but when a person is so filled with rage, honestly I felt threatened both spiritually and physically. A friendship works both ways, I can’t be the only one who is patient and understanding. I have a strong feeling that she could act out physically. My children are very young do you really think it would be a good idea to allow them to be exposed to this on a daily basis?

I forgive her, and harbor no resentment, but just because I feel this way doesn’t mean it changes anything or means my children are totally safe.

My home is not perfect, but it is my responsibility to guard it from allowing the occult in, especially with children involved.

 

[Peace-bwu]

ReginaNova:

AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!! :banghead:

What is an “enneagram”?

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1004

This gives a brief explanation.

 

[Peace-bwu]

ReginaNova:

AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!! :banghead:

What is an “enneagram”?

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1004

This gives a good brief description of the enneagram.

THE SUFI RELIGION

The Enneagram was developed from the Sufi religion, though it was not made up by the Sufis. It was introduced to the West by a Russian, George Ivanovich Gurdjieff, who sought to use it to foretell the future. It later gained acceptance among some Catholics. The Enneagram as we have it now was invented in Chile.

Many Sufis are very similar to witches. They believe they have the power to cast spells (they call it projecting “baraka”), to travel through time into the past and future, to heal, to read minds, to communicate telepathically with each other, and they have a superstitious belief in supernatural powers of certain things (certain kinds of candy and flowers). Clairvoyance and ESP to them are simply normal parts of life.

These Sufis believe in using their powers for the sake of the Design. This “design” is God’s plan for mankind: the direction God wishes human evolution to take. Only the Sufi masters are privy to this secret design; the Sufis are Gnostics in the sense that they believe in esoteric knowledge (but they do not believe in a good god vs. an evil god). They believe they must safeguard this hidden design or pattern; whenever human beings anywhere in the world do something which harms the design, they must use their supernatural powers to put things right. (There is also a vague connection between the Sufis and Freemasonry, because of the similarity of symbolism used by a 9th century Sufi, Dhul Nun, who was associated with the Order of the Bannayin (Builders), and modern Masonic symbolism.) **

THE ENNEAGRAM **

The Sufis believe the “design” (“naqsh”) is hidden underneath appearances, which are false: reality lies beneath appearances. They must see through outward appearances to find the truth, the reality, under them, where the design can be found. This especially includes looking beneath their own appearances. They must come to know their “real selves” and only then they can know “Reality”. To know Reality, and then act on it, is the ultimate goal of the Sufi religion.

The Enneagram is a system of assigning a number from 1 to 9 to oneself and every human being. This number is said to reveal the hidden motivation for everything a person does. Intelligence is given three “centers”: thought, emotion, and instinct. Mainly because of the environment, the three centers are always imbalanced. The result of this imbalance is that a person’s “true self” is always hidden beneath a “false self”. The Enneagram is supposed to enable a person to gain knowledge of his true self, exposing the true motivations for actions and illusions developed regarding himself and regarding how to deal with the world. Discovering one’s “true self” and the real motives for everything one does, concealed as the Sufis believe they are beneath false appearances, is vital to the Sufi religion; it is not part of Christianity. On the other hand, goodness and holiness, to know, love, and serve God on Earth and be happy with Him forever in Heaven, are the proper goals of the Christian, and these are not goals for the Sufi. If evil must be done for the sake of the design, that is not a problem for them. They believe the ends always justifies the means: it makes no difference at all whether human evolution is set right through good or through evil actions on the part of the Sufi.

**
**

 

[she_he]

Peace-bwu:

I think you misunderstood here. I have not pushed my faith on her at all. It is my friend who is trying to change me in a *very *judgemental way. We have known each other for a few months and I have been extremely patient as she talks about these things, but when a person can’t accept me for who I am and quite literally mocks my way of life and beliefs, that isnt’ much of a friend is it? I am not the one behaving this way. I have been very patient as she talks about using tarot cards, saying there is no heaven or hell, bashing PJ II, even then I thought I could see beyond to a person who is struggling to make sense of the world… but with this conversation I wrote about I got a whole new sense of spitefulness and hate from her. There is something more at play here than I realized before. When it comes to the occult and witchcraft, I have my children to protect. They are my top responsibility. If I didn’t have children I might try to continue the friendship and dialogue, but when a person is so filled with rage, honestly I felt threatened both spiritually and physically. A friendship works both ways, I can’t be the only one who is patient and understanding. I have a strong feeling that she could act out physically. My children are very young do you really think it would be a good idea to allow them to be exposed to this on a daily basis?

I forgive her, and harbor no resentment, but just because I feel this way doesn’t mean it changes anything or means my children are totally safe.

My home is not perfect, but it is my responsibility to guard it from allowing the occult in, especially with children involved.

My post WAS NOT directed at you, It was directed at the replies that have dumped friends because they didnt believe the same way, and as I stated your friend sounds like she is on a downhill trend, I never said you should let her in your house, or endanger your children,self, I merely stated that a difference in Faith is not a reason to disassociate with someone.

your friend has been caught so to speak but that dont mean she is yet doomed, did you ever wonder if maybe she brings all this up to get help from you,even though she is fighting what you have to say.if she is into everything you have mentioned my first question would be has she been “brainwashed” to some degree.or has she suffered a traumatic experience such as a breakup of a loved one.
tons of things could be causing this.

I know you stated about the reincarnation in one of your posts.
Lots of people believe in this,some ask why do they believe?
well when you see some things it can be pretty convincing such as a 9 yr old boy whom went up to a 67 yr old man and told him he owed him 75 dollars from a loan he gave him 35 yrs before
even described the day he loaned the money in DETAIL.including names of the mans children,wife, etc…

now some could say its proof of reincarnation, others say luck.
luck to me in that situation described would seem pretty far out as the boy was on a vacation with his family from the other side of the country, and the family had no prior knowledge of this man.

I could theorize that this particular case was someone whom maybe lead an iffy life and was given a chance to correct it.
or I could theorize it was an angel working through the boy to get the older man on track . tons of things could come up.But nothing is impossible through GOD…

what I recommended was to try and stay friends with this person and not talk religion,see where it goes. if she insists on mocking you then she in turn is disolving the friendship. But friends help
each other esspecially in the worst times.
A year ago had someone asked me about God noone on this forumn would have liked my answer,Before May of last year,I had a really rough 2 yrs before that and was convinced I was on heavens "pooplist"and some of the things i said I am ashamed of BUT In may he made light to me that I was not forgotten,forsaken.
or on the “pooplist” he just had other things he wanted of me.and the previous were mere stepping stones to ready me…
God didnt give up on me and trust me he def had right to…
so when i see posts such as i seen here of all the people whom ditched a friend over a belief I jump in and say my 2 cents worth
my wording is not always perfect,or for that matter even nice.
lots of times what i type and my meaning are very different.

so if you took offense to my post please know it wasnt directed at you or actually anyone, more at an attitude of dumping someone when they actually are in a time of need whether they relize it or not… Friends are very Important,My friends probably kept me alive last year,and I admit i was more than rude to a few of them,instead of giving up on me they got closer,I can never repay what they did for me when i needed them so to me this is a start
of sorts…
John

 

[Peace-bwu]

she_he:

I
I admit it was wrong of this person to mock your faith in YOUR home, but none of us are blessed with “PERFECTION”
what happened to your “Catholic belief of FORGIVENESS”
or does this not apply in this case because its against what we believe?
ASK YOURSELF THIS, What would Jesus do? would he dismiss us? NO he wouldnt,
would he still be waiting there for us as a friend whenever we messed up (as we all do constantly)? YES.
I believe Jesus was nailed to that cross esspecially because he befriended People whom were not faithful.
so by dismissing a friend whom dont share the same faith as we do, WE ARE MOCKING JESUS.

John

What would Jesus do? Jesus would want me to protect my family, my soul and not deny him by tolerating this kind of attack on Him. This is poor logic. I can treat her with love and kindness and forgiveness, that doesn’t mean she will treat me with the same courtesy. I can’t force her to be a good friend. I am just thankful she showed her true intent to convert me to her way of thinking, and believe me, since I have known her for the past few months, this has been very clear.

Jesus befriended the sinner, but cast out their demons, or rescued them from being stoned and said “go and sin no more,” There is a difference between hanging out with someone whose intent is to get you involved in the occult, knowingly, intentionally while pretending to be Catholic.

I will still be kind and loving toward her, I just can’t allow someone to behave this way toward me or my family. I will be praying about this and if something changes in her, I will continue the friendship, otherwise it will be distanced to keep my babies safe, and my home occult free. I care very much for her and her children. She is going through alot, but there are some things beyond my ability to change and only prayer can change. Honestly, I care very much for her, but we have human limitations and must discern and follow God’s Will in these circumstances. My husband and I will not be dumping her, but must be very careful now that she has revealed her intentions.

 

[sarcophagus]

I used to be into occultish things (well wicca, but I do not consider it much of the occult) and my current roommate is an atheist but believes more in wicca because her mother is and raised her that way. Many a time I hear mockery of my beliefs and of God. My friends at school are not religious and I hear it from them. Usually their biggest complaint is that the church is too limiting, too many rules. All I have to say to them is that I believe what I do because it suits me and I believe it to be the truth. I can’t follow a religion of no consequence (wicca). It just isn’t natural.

My advice to you. Don’t talk to her anymore, pray for her conversion or at least her acceptance of what you and other christians are. Keep her influence away from your children and find other friends if you can’t handle their opinions (not meant to be mean just sayin’).

 

[Peace-bwu]

With this friend the thing is, I can read about and discuss various religious beliefs and understand many of the concepts in the New Age movement, but disagree with them. They are not based in Truth. Understanding what it is and allowing her to discuss was not the problem for me, the problem is that she is not as accepting of me and sees my holding onto Catholocism as a lack of being evolved and that Western religion doesn’t understand the true nature of the soul so gets in the way of the evolution of the soul. If you read about the enneagram you will see that there is no concept of good and evil, just doing whatever one can to forward the “design”

For you Star Trek fans all I can think of is an attempt to turn the human race into Borg. It’s not a perfect analogy, but it comes to mind.

The thing that bothers me most is that she is Catholic on the outer shell, but has a whole agenda underneath, and part of that agenda is to change Catholic belief… not some small concept but

That there is no personal God
The concept of the soul is wrong, when we die we become energy, the soul does not stay intact, but the energy is regenerated through reincarnation.
There is no evil
No sin except what gets in the way of our creating our own souls.
The truth of the design lies beneath the surface. There is nothing wrong with doing harm if the end result is forwarding the “design” There is no original sin, and no good or evil, just a design.

The list goes on.

Because of this belief in forwarding “The design” see the thread posted about the eneagram, she is not satisfied with my Catholic beliefs and my refusal of the concepts behind it.

The use of language (see thread) which sounds like Catholic terms, made me think she was only reading about this stuff to understand it. Now I know that when she talks about the Holy Spirit, the soul, God, sin, saints, personality types, they all have new definitions and we are not talking about the same things. I didn’t figure this out until I read a book she gave to me just after the debate. It isn’t the discussions that bother me, but the obvious show of disrespect toward me remaining a devout Catholic, and the fact that she continues to keep a Catholic exterior in order to promote “the design.”

I also know that I have to accept a certain level of this if I am to accept her completely as a friend, and that would be committing adultry to my God. The occult opens us up to spiritual beings, never of God, because it is seeking knowlege without God, and seeking to manipulate and or control the physical and spiritual world without God. It severs our relationship with God. She is not wiccan but New Age and Pantheistic with various occult practices thrown in. She goes to Mass and takes Communion because she wants to change the Catholic Church.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

A friend doesn’t mock your beliefs, or come to your house under false pretenses. This is called a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”. Christ was a friend, this person isn’t.