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JRRTFAN
Guest
James White may be the most astute observer and analyst of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society on planet earth, but he is quite ignorant of the truths of Christianity. Ask his sister.
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smad0142
Guest
A better proof text is John 18. When the Temple Guards came to arrest Jesus, they asked for Him. Jesus responded by taking the divine name, I AM, when he said “I Am He.” In response to hearing the Divine Name, Yahweh or for the JW Jehovah, the Jews fell backwards and to the ground.
There is no other purpose within the context of that passage for the Jews falling to the ground, except for the fact that Jesus used the Divine Name.
It is also interesting to note that the Apostles did not fall down upon hearing the Divine Name, maybe because they already knew, as any honest reader of the New Testament knows, that Christ is divine.
There is no other purpose within the context of that passage for the Jews falling to the ground, except for the fact that Jesus used the Divine Name.
It is also interesting to note that the Apostles did not fall down upon hearing the Divine Name, maybe because they already knew, as any honest reader of the New Testament knows, that Christ is divine.
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StevieD
Guest
The father in law of an ex co-worker (who was not himself a Catholic) so confused two JW’s who visited him that they brought two others, he confused them too and they brought two others. He used to hold meetings at his home with all six (six to one!) and after several months they all took instruction and converted. I never met that man but I wish I had.
J
jrtrent
Guest
I see; we’re just getting a little off topic. The OP of this thread wrote, “Anyway, the point is, this is my favorite combination of verses (Psalm 101:26 and Hebrews 1:10) because Paul clearly connects Jesus to a passage about Jehovah. I’ve yet to hear a good answer from Jehovah’s Witnesses.” I was trying to find and post an answer that a Jehovah’s Witness might come up with; similar issues came up in my studies with them, and I never found them to lack a response that was well-reasoned and consistent with their overall interpretation of scripture (though that doesn’t mean it will be at all convincing to someone with a different set of presuppositions). I had never heard of Greg Stafford or James White prior to that internet search, but if the information is accurate regarding the Watchtower Society’s position on the issue, it really doesn’t matter that Stafford later started his own fellowship (though it’s an interesting story T More alluded to) or that White’s sister thinks he’s ignorant of the truths of Christianity. I’m still curious to hear the contents of the letter that Glorthac is supposed to receive and see if it will qualify as a “good answer.”James White may be the most astute observer and analyst of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society on planet earth, but he is quite ignorant of the truths of Christianity. Ask his sister.
O
obapplepie
Guest
I am an ex JW, now converted to Catholicism. It really is pretty much pointless to try to get in the face of JW with how their beliefs are wrong. Its a pretty delicate situation and if they feel you are trying to teach them, they will close up their hearts and ears like a clam. These people are brainwashed, and even under the circumstances where they realize the truth many stay as a JW and fake it. The reason for this is, as a JW you are officially supposed to not have anything to do with anybody who isn’t one as well… and if you leave, or are in bad standing, then other JW aren’t allowed to talk to you. Its a very lonely and traumatic conversion, to decide to be alone, and reject everything, everyone you’ve loved in exchange for truth, while rejecting what you’ve embraced as fact and truth for years, or your whole life, to find out the lies is like a betrayal in one of the worst senses. Its easy to become a JW because you feel like you are gaining a family, and gaining truth. Choosing to step away is like asking a helium balloon to untie its self on a windy day.
I am grateful everyday for my conversion to Catholicism. Its wonderful, and to really draw closer to God is a beautiful thing. But there are massive support groups out there for ex Jehovahs Witnesses for a reason. These are people who were willing to die for, and give up everything for their religious beliefs. They love God so much, or else they wouldn’t be willing to deal with everything that being a JW means, and their love for God and knowledge is what drew them to JW in the first place. But they also are shielded from and brainwashed against learning about the incredible lies, hypocrisy, false teachings, and false prophesys. Their teachings are insane but we were taught to reject anything that would ever put their beliefs under a microscope. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, and I am shocked and even embarrassed that I was unable to recognize how obviously false and bizarre their teachings are, when even a little child would understand how screwed up it is if they were able to compare. We were taught not to read the bible with out their teachings to guide us, hopping and skipping taking things out of context. While its very easy to argue against JW teaching, its not the right way to their conversion. Its true that while I’m sure once in awhile shoving some bible truth in their face will get them thinking, I would think they would be more likely to close off and dismiss it, or to believe satan is trying to shake their faith, because that’s what they are taught to feel. Any information that they do retain is going to be like an earthquake devastating their souls and their lives and everything they live for, and I think its hurtful to take an aggressive attitude in teaching them. Here is a great site, that goes into how to attempt to convert a JW… towerwatch.com/ its by someone who is an ex JW, so he is able to approach it on a level that I think many non JW wouldn’t necessarily think to do. By being gentle and accommodating and letting them feel they are teaching YOU, while you innocently ask questions that would invoke them doing a little research into their own religion, thinking its for your sake. I personally am a big fan of ‘101 Questions for Jehovahs Witnesses’, everything is laid out. But that is more for my personal issues, as someone who has already converted. But I wouldn’t necessarily give it to a JW right out since after reading a word or two they would be more than likely to shove it in the trash, but the intent is that these are some of the questions you can ask after agreeing to a home bible study. But this can be very time consuming, annoying, and involves dedication on your part to their conversion.
I am grateful everyday for my conversion to Catholicism. Its wonderful, and to really draw closer to God is a beautiful thing. But there are massive support groups out there for ex Jehovahs Witnesses for a reason. These are people who were willing to die for, and give up everything for their religious beliefs. They love God so much, or else they wouldn’t be willing to deal with everything that being a JW means, and their love for God and knowledge is what drew them to JW in the first place. But they also are shielded from and brainwashed against learning about the incredible lies, hypocrisy, false teachings, and false prophesys. Their teachings are insane but we were taught to reject anything that would ever put their beliefs under a microscope. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, and I am shocked and even embarrassed that I was unable to recognize how obviously false and bizarre their teachings are, when even a little child would understand how screwed up it is if they were able to compare. We were taught not to read the bible with out their teachings to guide us, hopping and skipping taking things out of context. While its very easy to argue against JW teaching, its not the right way to their conversion. Its true that while I’m sure once in awhile shoving some bible truth in their face will get them thinking, I would think they would be more likely to close off and dismiss it, or to believe satan is trying to shake their faith, because that’s what they are taught to feel. Any information that they do retain is going to be like an earthquake devastating their souls and their lives and everything they live for, and I think its hurtful to take an aggressive attitude in teaching them. Here is a great site, that goes into how to attempt to convert a JW… towerwatch.com/ its by someone who is an ex JW, so he is able to approach it on a level that I think many non JW wouldn’t necessarily think to do. By being gentle and accommodating and letting them feel they are teaching YOU, while you innocently ask questions that would invoke them doing a little research into their own religion, thinking its for your sake. I personally am a big fan of ‘101 Questions for Jehovahs Witnesses’, everything is laid out. But that is more for my personal issues, as someone who has already converted. But I wouldn’t necessarily give it to a JW right out since after reading a word or two they would be more than likely to shove it in the trash, but the intent is that these are some of the questions you can ask after agreeing to a home bible study. But this can be very time consuming, annoying, and involves dedication on your part to their conversion.
J
jlhargus
Guest
JL: Thanks obapplepie, I will try to use those questions when I get the opportunity. If you don’t mind answering what brought you out of the WT?I am an ex JW, now converted to Catholicism. It really is pretty much pointless to try to get in the face of JW with how their beliefs are wrong. Its a pretty delicate situation and if they feel you are trying to teach them, they will close up their hearts and ears like a clam. These people are brainwashed, and even under the circumstances where they realize the truth many stay as a JW and fake it. The reason for this is, as a JW you are officially supposed to not have anything to do with anybody who isn’t one as well… and if you leave, or are in bad standing, then other JW aren’t allowed to talk to you. Its a very lonely and traumatic conversion, to decide to be alone, and reject everything, everyone you’ve loved in exchange for truth, while rejecting what you’ve embraced as fact and truth for years, or your whole life, to find out the lies is like a betrayal in one of the worst senses. Its easy to become a JW because you feel like you are gaining a family, and gaining truth. Choosing to step away is like asking a helium balloon to untie its self on a windy day.
I am grateful everyday for my conversion to Catholicism. Its wonderful, and to really draw closer to God is a beautiful thing. But there are massive support groups out there for ex Jehovahs Witnesses for a reason. These are people who were willing to die for, and give up everything for their religious beliefs. They love God so much, or else they wouldn’t be willing to deal with everything that being a JW means, and their love for God and knowledge is what drew them to JW in the first place. But they also are shielded from and brainwashed against learning about the incredible lies, hypocrisy, false teachings, and false prophesys. Their teachings are insane but we were taught to reject anything that would ever put their beliefs under a microscope. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, and I am shocked and even embarrassed that I was unable to recognize how obviously false and bizarre their teachings are, when even a little child would understand how screwed up it is if they were able to compare. We were taught not to read the bible with out their teachings to guide us, hopping and skipping taking things out of context. While its very easy to argue against JW teaching, its not the right way to their conversion. Its true that while I’m sure once in awhile shoving some bible truth in their face will get them thinking, I would think they would be more likely to close off and dismiss it, or to believe satan is trying to shake their faith, because that’s what they are taught to feel. Any information that they do retain is going to be like an earthquake devastating their souls and their lives and everything they live for, and I think its hurtful to take an aggressive attitude in teaching them. Here is a great site, that goes into how to attempt to convert a JW… towerwatch.com/ its by someone who is an ex JW, so he is able to approach it on a level that I think many non JW wouldn’t necessarily think to do. By being gentle and accommodating and letting them feel they are teaching YOU, while you innocently ask questions that would invoke them doing a little research into their own religion, thinking its for your sake. I personally am a big fan of ‘101 Questions for Jehovahs Witnesses’, everything is laid out. But that is more for my personal issues, as someone who has already converted. But I wouldn’t necessarily give it to a JW right out since after reading a word or two they would be more than likely to shove it in the trash, but the intent is that these are some of the questions you can ask after agreeing to a home bible study. But this can be very time consuming, annoying, and involves dedication on your part to their conversion.
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