W
windlessuser
Guest
Hey guys could use some feedback on how heretical i am ^_^.
Hey again. I think the problem lies in a lack of Understanding. I’ll try to outline some fundamentals in a way that won’t sound like noise (eh Ron Handlon). Part of having a constructive discussion is knowing how to pick your battles and knowing what can actually be discussed. First you must acknowledge this: unless controlled, the discussions will degenerate into “Atheist believing the theist is deluded, superstitious and irrational” and “To the theist, the atheist is arrogant, hard-headed and unfeeling”. The goal is to understand the others position then state your differing position in a calm and humane manner. We are all people worthy of dignity.
It would also help if knew how the orthodox religions view things (this is where it might get a bit noisy). When it is said that there is a small chance of God existing let alone the Christian one by virtue that there have been “several” Gods in our history, that’s not how you look at it. It’s more like this: God has tried several times to reveal himself to us. That’s why several cultures at different points in history have some form of theology. All Christianity is saying is that its theology is the most correct. Disputing that claim is pointless for obvious reasons.
Now here’s something else. At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter, as everything boils down to your relationship with him rather than your knowledge or doctrines. Why? Because the real goal of religion is to make the Grace of God apparent to everyone! And guess what else! His Grace is acceptable to everyone regardless of race, beliefs, gender, intelligence etc. Whether you believe in him or not, he will still shower you with his grace because he loves us so much! Think of it like having a bank account you have. You notice (if you choose to check) that every month at regular interval some money is placed in it by an anonymous benefactor!
Now what exactly do we mean by the Grace of God? Long story short, it is the power of God working in our lives. More specifically, there are two (2) types of grace. The Sanctifying Grace and Actual Grace.
Sanctifying grace is discrete. Think of what would happen is you stark naked were pulled down to the bottom of the ocean. You’d die! Obviously, because your body in a natural state cannot survive in that environment. However, by some supernatural means, by way of deep water suite you can survive. Sanctifying grace works exactly like that suite. Our souls in their natural state cannot be in his presences, I.e. we wouldn’t survive; by his sanctifying grace, our souls are made holy. Now differing religions have their own methodology for this. In Christianity it would be baptism. However, God is not bound by the tools he’s given us so he can sanctify anyone he sees fit. That’s because only he knows the true state of your heart. That’s why even those who don’t subscribe to religion can also join with him. It is also why we pray for you.
Actual Grace is transient, i.e. you aren’t directly conscious of it, but you feel its effect. Think of how your liver or G.I. Tract works lol. Now Actual grace is what’s colloquially meant as the Grace of God. It is also why people continue to believe in him despite everything. Actual Grace is the little push he gives us. He gives us the strength and motivation to face every obstacle! Most importantly, the strength to do what is right! It’s the nudge you feel in your heart when it’s said your “conscience” is bothering you. It’s a free gift you can choose to make use of or not. To choose not to brings about the concept of sin which I’m sure you’ve already heard to death. This is the real reason why we go to Church or insert other religions building here. It’s a place for us to learn how to use The Grace of God.
Just like how you step on a hardwood floor, you get real feedback that you won’t fall to the centre of the earth, Theists get feedback when they call upon the Grace of God. This personal feedback is what the person gets and allows them to develop and relationship with him. Just like how you talk to your friends and get feedback, you can with him. Just think of God as an amazing friend who’d never let you down. However, it is your stance that this feedback is in actuality a delusion but at the same time this is uncontestably. Think of women. They believe that colours like cyan, teal and Turquoise exist. I as a man, am unable to see said colours, but who am I to deny that they exist?
Something else you fail to acknowledge is that the devout have a relationship with him. Think of yourself having this friend. This friend of yours always speaks of her mother/father but you yourself have not seen him. There are however hints of the mother’s/father’s presence as well as other people testifying that the mother/father is alive and present and active in your friends life. Therefore to deny the relationship your friend has with his parent is folly (Please know this). You most likely haven’t seen him/her because of conflicting schedules, but if you do eventually decide to make the time to meet him/her you can develop a relationship as well.
This is all the religions are saying and it’s also why we feel that we don’t even have to prove that He exists. The proof is all around you, but it could be that you’re too arrogant to see it. Personally, I feel that just like in the “Girl colour” example, it could be that your affinity to feel his grace may be weaker than others. If that’s the case we’re willing to help you. It’s why the church exists.
Again, I hope this helps you understand the orthodox position in your debates. All mocking scripture does is prove that you don’t understand what we are about or what we’re trying to-do.
Hey again. I think the problem lies in a lack of Understanding. I’ll try to outline some fundamentals in a way that won’t sound like noise (eh Ron Handlon). Part of having a constructive discussion is knowing how to pick your battles and knowing what can actually be discussed. First you must acknowledge this: unless controlled, the discussions will degenerate into “Atheist believing the theist is deluded, superstitious and irrational” and “To the theist, the atheist is arrogant, hard-headed and unfeeling”. The goal is to understand the others position then state your differing position in a calm and humane manner. We are all people worthy of dignity.
It would also help if knew how the orthodox religions view things (this is where it might get a bit noisy). When it is said that there is a small chance of God existing let alone the Christian one by virtue that there have been “several” Gods in our history, that’s not how you look at it. It’s more like this: God has tried several times to reveal himself to us. That’s why several cultures at different points in history have some form of theology. All Christianity is saying is that its theology is the most correct. Disputing that claim is pointless for obvious reasons.
Now here’s something else. At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter, as everything boils down to your relationship with him rather than your knowledge or doctrines. Why? Because the real goal of religion is to make the Grace of God apparent to everyone! And guess what else! His Grace is acceptable to everyone regardless of race, beliefs, gender, intelligence etc. Whether you believe in him or not, he will still shower you with his grace because he loves us so much! Think of it like having a bank account you have. You notice (if you choose to check) that every month at regular interval some money is placed in it by an anonymous benefactor!
Now what exactly do we mean by the Grace of God? Long story short, it is the power of God working in our lives. More specifically, there are two (2) types of grace. The Sanctifying Grace and Actual Grace.
Sanctifying grace is discrete. Think of what would happen is you stark naked were pulled down to the bottom of the ocean. You’d die! Obviously, because your body in a natural state cannot survive in that environment. However, by some supernatural means, by way of deep water suite you can survive. Sanctifying grace works exactly like that suite. Our souls in their natural state cannot be in his presences, I.e. we wouldn’t survive; by his sanctifying grace, our souls are made holy. Now differing religions have their own methodology for this. In Christianity it would be baptism. However, God is not bound by the tools he’s given us so he can sanctify anyone he sees fit. That’s because only he knows the true state of your heart. That’s why even those who don’t subscribe to religion can also join with him. It is also why we pray for you.
Actual Grace is transient, i.e. you aren’t directly conscious of it, but you feel its effect. Think of how your liver or G.I. Tract works lol. Now Actual grace is what’s colloquially meant as the Grace of God. It is also why people continue to believe in him despite everything. Actual Grace is the little push he gives us. He gives us the strength and motivation to face every obstacle! Most importantly, the strength to do what is right! It’s the nudge you feel in your heart when it’s said your “conscience” is bothering you. It’s a free gift you can choose to make use of or not. To choose not to brings about the concept of sin which I’m sure you’ve already heard to death. This is the real reason why we go to Church or insert other religions building here. It’s a place for us to learn how to use The Grace of God.
Just like how you step on a hardwood floor, you get real feedback that you won’t fall to the centre of the earth, Theists get feedback when they call upon the Grace of God. This personal feedback is what the person gets and allows them to develop and relationship with him. Just like how you talk to your friends and get feedback, you can with him. Just think of God as an amazing friend who’d never let you down. However, it is your stance that this feedback is in actuality a delusion but at the same time this is uncontestably. Think of women. They believe that colours like cyan, teal and Turquoise exist. I as a man, am unable to see said colours, but who am I to deny that they exist?
Something else you fail to acknowledge is that the devout have a relationship with him. Think of yourself having this friend. This friend of yours always speaks of her mother/father but you yourself have not seen him. There are however hints of the mother’s/father’s presence as well as other people testifying that the mother/father is alive and present and active in your friends life. Therefore to deny the relationship your friend has with his parent is folly (Please know this). You most likely haven’t seen him/her because of conflicting schedules, but if you do eventually decide to make the time to meet him/her you can develop a relationship as well.
This is all the religions are saying and it’s also why we feel that we don’t even have to prove that He exists. The proof is all around you, but it could be that you’re too arrogant to see it. Personally, I feel that just like in the “Girl colour” example, it could be that your affinity to feel his grace may be weaker than others. If that’s the case we’re willing to help you. It’s why the church exists.
Again, I hope this helps you understand the orthodox position in your debates. All mocking scripture does is prove that you don’t understand what we are about or what we’re trying to-do.
