A Little Help

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sanfran221

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Hello everyone. I recently read something that I have a few questions about and was wondering if I could get some clarification. I grew up attending a non-denominational church. I believe in Jesus, took communion, have been baptized, all that, but wanted something with a little more structure, so I started investigating different denominations. Soon after investigating the Catholic faith, I came across this: “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it (CCC 846).” What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that if one believes the Catholic church to be the most accurate church yet does not join, you cannot be saved? Or am I misreading it and there is another meaning entirely?
 
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

†

Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Amen.

†
 
I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand what your post means. How does that answer my question?
 
sanfran221 said:
Does it mean that if one believes the Catholic church to be the most accurate church yet does not join, you cannot be saved?
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The Catholic Church is not just the “most accurate” Church, it is the Church created by Christ.

If a person recognizes this, and yet obstinately chooses to remain outside the communion of Christ’s Church, this would be very serious matter, would it not?
 
sanfran221 said:
Hello everyone. I recently read something that I have a few questions about and was wondering if I could get some clarification. I grew up attending a non-denominational church. I believe in Jesus, took communion, have been baptized, all that, but wanted something with a little more structure, so I started investigating different denominations. Soon after investigating the Catholic faith, I came across this: “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it (CCC 846).” What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that if one believes the Catholic church to be the most accurate church yet does not join, you cannot be saved? Or am I misreading it and there is another meaning entirely?
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It’s important to follow the Truth that you have come to terms with.

Sometimes, Protestants don’t like the idea of becoming Catholic, but it is the Truth.

I really can’t speak for an individual’s Salvation, but know this:

Those are blessed to know the Faith and the Truth have a great responsibility. You’ll be missing out to say the least and it can be a very serious matter, if nothing else because it is selfish.

A pastor once told me that “being selfish is as close to the devil as you can get because God is all generous and giving”.
 
Hi SanFran,

I think Polly’s posts were praying for you.

It looks like you are digging into the Catechism, which is a great way to learn about the Catholic Church.

That quote is actually the last sentence of a paragraph which comes from an Apostolic Constitution called Lumen Gentium which was written by Pope Paul VI back in 1964. You can see the entire text here:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

That section of the Catechism is summed up “Outside the Chuch there is no salvation.”

The lines in the Catechism from 846 and 847 might be put together for you like this… You need the Chuch to be saved, but through no fault of your own you don’t know Christ and His Church.

I would say it like this: God loves you, He sent His only son so that you would be saved. Jesus established a chuch here on earth so that you could come to know Him. He’s waiting for you in the Eucharist, He wants you to accept him completely.

So come join His body, you can sign up for RCIA classes at your local parish.
 
A lot of people wonder how the Catholic Church can make statements like that, my family included. I know it sounds arrogant. But, if a person does the research, which my family won’t do because they are turned off by the arrogance… (is this a vicious cycle???)

If one does the research and compares churches, the Catholic church has been around since the time of Christ. In fact, HE started it by giving the keys to Saint Peter. It has been teaching and helping people get to Jesus for 2013 years. If you read the earliest writers who discuss the richness of the church you will see the depth of the sacraments that Jesus left for us including the real presence in the Holy Eucharist. There have always been doubters, even in Jesus’ time. There have been people who try to change the church to fit their beliefs. PEOPLE can’t change what Jesus left. The Catholic church takes a lot of heat because they won’t (can’t) change to fit in with society. Some people don’t like it that a man living in Rome tells them how to live. This is the biggest misunderstanding in my opinion. The pope isn’t telling us how to live. He is holding on tightly to the treasures (truths) left by Jesus for him to protect throughout time. He and the rest of the cardinals and bishops and priests try their best to help the sinners, which we all are, get to heaven by the path that Jesus left. It isn’t some rules that the pope just made up…

In some protestant churches the people get to vote on what they believe. For example, one church I know asked the members, “Do you believe the virgin Mary was forever a virgin?” Most people in that church today didn’t think this could really happen , so now that is not one of the things that church believes. It is hard for me to think my belief system can be called on to change because a majority of people in the 21 century voted on it. That’s just one example. There are others.

Bottom line… the Catholic Church was given a treasure and Jesus will help protect that treasure until the end of time. If a person believes this and refuses to follow, then it could be a means of losing your soul. Just MHO!
 
sanfran221 said:
Does it mean that if one believes the Catholic church to be the most accurate church yet does not join, you cannot be saved? Or am I misreading it and there is another meaning entirely?
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You might also read CCC @ paragraphs 2087-2089, I think this is what you’re asking about.

2087: Our moral life has its source in faith in God who reveals his love to us. St. Paul speaks of the “obedience of faith” as our first obligation. He shows that “ignorance of God” is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations. Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.

2088: The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

2089: Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
 
petra22 said:
Bottom line… the Catholic Church was given a treasure and Jesus will help protect that treasure until the end of time. If a person believes this and refuses to follow, then it could be a means of losing your soul.
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Amen.
 
Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blest is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

:crossrc:
 
If a person knows that the Catholic faith is the true faith and chooses to not be a part of the Church then that means they are choosing to do what they know is not right and live their lives in a way that they know they are not supposed to live their lives; thus, they are choosing to sin because they are choosing to not follow God.

If a person does not know that the Catholic faith is the true faith, then this phrase you quoted does not apply to them.

Lets say that a person does know that the Catholic faith is the true faith and chooses to not enter into it. Then we would have to look why the person chose that decision. If a person for instance chose to not be Catholic because of anxiety, or they felt forced to lets say be Lutheran, or because they thought they would be killed, that would lessen a person’s responsibility for that decision so it would not be a mortal sin.
 
sanfran221 said:
Hello everyone. I recently read something that I have a few questions about and was wondering if I could get some clarification. I grew up attending a non-denominational church. I believe in Jesus, took communion, have been baptized, all that, but wanted something with a little more structure, so I started investigating different denominations. Soon after investigating the Catholic faith, I came across this: “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it (CCC 846).” What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that if one believes the Catholic church to be the most accurate church yet does not join, you cannot be saved? Or am I misreading it and there is another meaning entirely?
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The Church teaches that it contains all of God’s truth for salvation, Scripture, sacramemts, Eucharist, tradition. That Jesus Chrirst is the head of the Church and the pope is His Vicor on earth.
The Church also reconizes the work of the holy spirit and other demoniations also contain truth of God’s salvation. Most notable the scripture, most baptism and marriage, but not the fullness of the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. Even non Christian demoniations contain aspects of God’s truth of salvation. It can be said of them as per CC 847 and 848 they are can be saved if they seek God with a sincere heart.
Since the church reconizes one baptism, all who are baptised in Christ are part of the body of Christ and are saved since, Christ is the head of the the Church.
The bottom line is that you can be saved through other faiths, but the Catholic Church contains all the truths for God’s Salvation. Or you can ride in a Nova or a Lexus, the choice is yours.
 
Hi sanfran!
Welcome to the boards 🙂
I think the answers above should be suitable in helping you with your question (and yes, some of them were prayers… because all of the answers in the world will get us no where without the grace of God, which you well know if you were raised Christian)

But yes. It’s an easier saying than it sounds. It’s not saying that a Catholic who falls into doubt about his religion and strays outside the bounds of it shall be confined outside of Heaven for all eternity. It is saying that someone who knows and believes in the Truth revealed by Christ through His Holy Church and yet rejects it is in deep trouble. Similar crimes were perpetuated by Judas, for example, who knew our Lord to his face yet betrayed him.

We hope you’ll stick around for any more questions you have. The best way of asking is just asking one piece at a time!
 
sanfran221 said:
Hello everyone. I recently read something that I have a few questions about and was wondering if I could get some clarification. I grew up attending a non-denominational church. I believe in Jesus, took communion, have been baptized, all that, but wanted something with a little more structure, so I started investigating different denominations. Soon after investigating the Catholic faith, I came across this: “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it (CCC 846).” What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that if one believes the Catholic church to be the most accurate church yet does not join, you cannot be saved? Or am I misreading it and there is another meaning entirely?
Click to expand...
If the brakes on my car go bad, and I put on another set that are bad, I will crash.
If the brakes are bad, then I need a set of good brakes that will so the job so I don’t crash.

If I’m in a church whose teachings I follow will crash my soul, then I must select the church whose teachings will help me and save my soul.

It isn’t all that good to put on a set of breaks and say “well these are just about good enough”.

Jesus gave us the the one church in Matt 28:18-20,
“Then Jesus approached and said to them(the 11), ‘All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, Baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, TEACHING them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold I am with you ALWAYS, until the end of the age.’”

So it is Jesus who is teaching us thru his church he left, and will always be with us.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
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