A little history please!

[anrmenchaca47]

This is speculation. I know little about the history of Luther and the so called reformation.

The Book of Wisdom is not favorable to those who deny that transubstantiation is possible, that it takes place, or that it is God’s will.

In Chapter 16 of the Book of Wisdom, the author compares the rain of hail and fire upon Egypt with the rain of manna on Israel in the desert. In this comparison, he notes that the elements of fire and water, as well as the manna, both had their physical properties changed by God.

For against all expectation, in water which quenches everything, the fire grew more active; … And again, even in the water, fire blazed beyond its strength so as to consume the produce of the wicked land. (Wisdom 16:17, 19)

For this substance of yours revealed your sweetness toward your children, and serving the desire of the one who received it, was changed to whatever flavor each one wished. (Wisdom 16:21)

Chapter 19 is even more blatant. It not only states that the physical properties of substances were changed, but that elements themselves and even creatures changed places.

For the elements, in ever-changing harmony,
like strings of the harp, produce new melody,
while the flow of music steadily persists.
And this can be perceived exactly from a review of what took place.
For land creatures were changed into water creatures,
and those that swam went over on land.
Fire in water maintained its own strength,
and water forgot its quenching nature;
Flames, by contrast, neither consumed the flesh
of the perishable animals that went about in them,
nor melted the icelike, quick-melting kind of ambrosial food.
(Wisdom 19:18-21)

I find the last line most interesting. While the ambrosial food - manna - was melted at sunrise six days of the week, it was not melted on the seventh day, and this with no difference in the substance percievable to humans.

-Tim-

WOW!!! I’m glad I popped into this thread!!!

 

[anrmenchaca47]

Justin Martyr and Ignatius of Antioch (quoted earlier) were both martyred in Rome in the 2nd century shortly after the Apostles. Ignatius had been appointed by Peter. These men gladly died to preserve the faith. .

So Ignatius was Pope? or was he an apostle?

Also, where can I find information regarding the Apostles and who they gave their authority too? Thanks

 

[misti88]

So Ignatius was Pope? or was he an apostle?

Also, where can I find information regarding the Apostles and who they gave their authority too? Thanks

Ignatius Loyola founded the Jesuits (the Society of Jesus). The Jesuits were one of the major spearheads of the Counter-Reformation. The work done by Ignatius Loyola was seen as an important counter to Martin Luther and John Calvin.

Ignatius Loyola was born in 1491 into a wealthy noble family. He was educated as a knight. Like many young men from his background, Loyola joined the army. In May 1521, he was wounded at the Battle of Pamplona while fighting against France. While Loyola recovered from his wounds he underwent a spiritual conversion. After reading about the lives of the Saints and of Christ, Loyola concluded that his life had been a sham and he decided to reform it. After claiming to have seen a vision of the Virgin Mary and the baby Jesus he went to the shrine of Our Lady at Montserrat in Aragon and became a hermit living in a cave near Mantua in 1522. He spent his time in rags confessing and scourging himself whilst helping the sick. “I will follow like a puppy dog if I can only find a way to salvation.” Loyola threw himself at the mercy of God. He devoted hours each day to prayer and when he was not doing this he tended to the sick and poor.

In 1523, Loyola travelled to the Holy Land in an attempt to convert the Moors. However, he was sent back by the Franciscans to Italy. Loyola spent the next seven years learning Theology and Latin at Barcelona, Alcala and Salamanca universities and after this Loyola went to the college of Montaigu in Paris. He arrived in Paris at the same time as John Calvin was leaving!
His university education ended in 1535. During his time of studying Loyola collected eight followers who shared his beliefs. In August 1534, they swore obedience to the Pope and also took vows of poverty and chastity. Loyola and his followers determined to dedicate their lives as missionaries to the Holy Land.
On September 27th, 1540, the Society for Jesus received formal recognition from Pope Paul III. Loyola had been ordained as a priest in 1537 and he spent much time in Rome where he organised the work of the Jesuits as the order’s first General. Loyola had become convinced that he could not do his work within an existing order, hence his determination to start his own.

Loyola ensured that the Jesuit movement was highly disciplined and that all followers knew by heart his ‘Spiritual Exercises’ and ‘Constitution’. Education and self-examination were at the heart of the movement and after years of training, a Jesuit was considered fully prepared to carry out his work in the world

Ignatius Loyola’s Jesuits transformed the Roman Catholic Church in terms of quality and they became a vital part of the Counter-Reformation.

Ignatius Loyola was canonised in 1622.

 

[mjakemccoy]

So Ignatius was Pope? or was he an apostle?

Also, where can I find information regarding the Apostles and who they gave their authority too? Thanks

Ignatius of Antioch was appointed by Peter according to tradition. The Catholic Encyclopedia referenced it as Dial. Immutab, I, iv, 33a, Paris, 1642. Ignatius was regarded by most early Church historians as the child mentioned in Mark 9:35.

There are mixed stories/legends of where the Apostles wound up. All except John are believed to have been martyred. Pope Benedict has a book on the Apostles which is a good read on the Apostles, but doesn’t dig into succession other than the replacement of Judas. As I mentioned earlier the Roman Persecutions were very methodical. They knew the bishops had authority so they went after the bishops. So the earliest record I’ve heard of comes from Ireneaus, and he only lists the bishops in Rome up to that time, starting with Peter. It is Ireneaus’ response to Gnosticism, he challenges that he knows bishops who have descended from the disciples themselves, and none of them are Gnostics. The only town he lists an Aposolic Succession for is Rome. Eusebius wrote the earliest historical record outside of the Acts of the Apostles, but it wasn’t until the 4th century. This should shed some light as to how bad the persecutions were. Eusebius’ history might cover it, but I’ve never read Eusebius’ book, only excerpts. Good luck.