A Mormon Hymn: If You Could Hie to Kolob

[KathleenGee]

I went back to www.Bibleprobe.com. It is very interesting, does have some sensational aspects to it.

I noted the subject, ‘Masons’. The person who has this site is an Arab Christian, has lived in the Middle East, and has gone to Catholic school. I thought he was an Evangelical Christian. He does defend the Catholic Church from SDA’s.

But I would say the presentation is 3 dimensional, draws on the roots of Judaism, Christianity and Catholicism, and Islam…and other belief systems. He also spells out that we are living in the time of the Great Apostasy, and he also drawns on the common faith we share as Christians.

John Paul II said to hold on to what is best of our cultures…and to seek unity together. I have always stated I have alot esteem of the Mormon people. But just as the Catholic Church is going through its purgation and lack of discipline, I also think it is time others drop ideas, or wording that is not in our Scripture.

I also commend the Mormon marriages that are stable, well grounded and appropriate.

 

[KathleenGee]

I went back to www.Bibleprobe.com. It is very interesting, does have some sensational aspects to it.

I noted the subject, ‘Masons’. The person who has this site is an Arab Christian, has lived in the Middle East, and has gone to Catholic school. I thought he was an Evangelical Christian. He does defend the Catholic Church from SDA’s.

But I would say the presentation is 3 dimensional, draws on the roots of Judaism, Christianity and Catholicism, and Islam…and other belief systems. He also spells out that we are living in the time of the Great Apostasy, and he also drawns on the common faith we share as Christians.

John Paul II said to hold on to what is best of our cultures…and to seek unity together. I have always stated I have alot esteem of the Mormon people. But just as the Catholic Church is going through its purgation and lack of discipline, I also think it is time others drop ideas, or wording that is not in our Scripture.

I also commend the Mormon marriages that are stable, well grounded and appropriate, meaning where both marriage partners are treated as equals in human dignity and purpose, each on their own journey as well to eternal life.

 

[AtticusFinch]

Although many christians, including catholics, have mocked the mormons over kolob, I have to take my hat off to the mormons for moving christianity forward. The idea of kolob shows the mormon faith to be revolutionary with respect to christian doctrine.

No other christian faith takes a stance of where just exactly god resides. And yet, he must reside somewhere.

naaaa…Mormons are not the only revolutionary ones…Jim Jones, David Koresch, Mary White…y’all are all revolutionary

 

[Publisher]

naaaa…Mormons are not the only revolutionary ones…Jim Jones, David Koresch, Mary White…y’all are all revolutionary

I’m sure you meant Ellen White…her stance on “where God resides” is most likely very close to yours…she was very orthodox in her view of God…The SDA claim to be the Remnant Church…but very orthodox in most respects…they have a few “quirks”…but then I don’t know of any religious institution that doesn’t have a belief or two that’s “quirky”…it’s the “quirky” that separates us for the most part.

 

[AtticusFinch]

I’m sure you meant Ellen White…her stance on “where God resides” is most likely very close to yours…she was very orthodox in her view of God…The SDA claim to be the Remnant Church…but very orthodox in most respects…they have a few “quirks”…but then I don’t know of any religious institution that doesn’t have a belief or two that’s “quirky”…it’s the “quirky” that separates us for the most part.

yeah, I get Ellen and Mary mixed up. Mary was co-founder of NAACP. Ellen was founder of something just as bad.

And my grouping had nothing to do with where God resides but more to do with people who started dangerous cults

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease,

The “secret names” are merely symbolic that the man and the woman have kept their covenants regarding their relationship to each other (to have been completely supportive of each other and for the man to learn from his wife since she is his “help meet”) and their relationship to God who is at the center of their marriage and obviously has symbolically promised them eternal life through the atonement of Christ and through their keeping their covenants.

The man has to understand that he doesn’t get around the idea that if he is not supportive of his wife and does not treat her as an equal partner in their relationship, then he won’t be qualified to participate in even having to “know” her “secret name”, because he won’t be asked to be there and his body won’t be a Celestial body anyway when he is resurrected because he won’t have become so qualified.

The woman understands that she is an “help meet” just as Eve was given to Adam in an eternal relationship where she was his “help meet”. (She actually helped out right away by helping Adam along the path toward getting wisdom, which she perceived was a good thing and not a bad thing.) She also understands that their covenant has to do with being righteous and with blessing each others’ lives.

Exaltation is just as much the woman becoming perfect as it is the man becoming perfect, and this is only possible through the atonement of Christ, and through covenant-keeping with Christ and the Father at the center of those covenants. Both the man and the woman can inherit “joint thrones” as described by John in the book of Revelation.

Answersplease:

Just saying that they are equal does’nt make it so.

Go bacl to post #93 and ANSWER ALL the 5 stated points concerning the equality of men and women in Mormonism.

As for those “joint thrones”, please show where that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon which you consider a more perfect book than The Holy Bible.

 

[ParkerD]

Just saying that they are equal does’nt make it so.

Go bacl to post #93 and ANSWER ALL the 5 stated points concerning the equality of men and women in Mormonism.

As for those “joint thrones”, please show where that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon which you consider a more perfect book than The Holy Bible.

Answersplease,
I don’t see why in the world you think I would answer those 5 stated points from the perspective in which they were presented, since that would be a violation of temple covenants. I know that may not mean much to you, but it certainly means a great deal to me. The temple is a holy place, and what goes on there after it is dedicated is not something to be talked about beyond the many, many articles that already discuss it and that come from LDS sources.

You have to understand that people express language differently, so that one person can say something and be giving an entirely different meaning than someone else.

“Joint thrones” wasn’t talked about in the Book of Mormon because Nephi was told that John the apostle had a special assignment from God to write the vision he was going to have, and when he wrote that vision then the world would receive the knowledge that Nephi was seeing in 585 BC. A prophet doesn’t write everything they see. A prophet writes what they are asked through revelation to write down so that the people have instruction from God in the way God wants them to have it.

So when “joint thrones” is talked about in Revelation, then that is fulfilling the prophecy of Nephi that John would write his vision and it would reveal important information to the world.

The Bible and the Book of Mormon go hand in hand. Both testify of Christ, and the Bible reveals some details of knowledge that the Book of Mormon doesn’t go into because the Book of Mormon prophets knew that the world in our day would have the Bible and use it.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Not trying to stir anything up here…is Kolob the source for BSG’s Kobol?

In a word, yes.

One of the major people behind BSG was a Mormon, at least at the beginning if not at the end, and Kobol was a take-off on Kolob. It was never announced on the show, but this information was commonly available during the time the show was on.

Interestingly, those in the show that believed in Kobol also supported the concept of a pantheon of Gods, like Mormonism, just a different group of Gods.

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease,
I don’t see why in the world you think I would answer those 5 stated points from the perspective in which they were presented, since that would be a violation of temple covenants.

Answersplease:

Then answer each of the five points WITHOUT revealing anything about your temple ceremony.

1.) The women whisper their secret names to their husbands and to nobody else, because the husband has to call her by her secret name to bring her up to the Celestial Kingdom.

2.) The men DO NOT have to whisper their secret names to their wives.

3.) The men can become gods, but the WOMEN CANNOT become gods.

4.) …women will be considered as “ORNAMENTS” in the kingdom of their husband who has become a “god”:

5.) …women must be escorted by their husbands or a proxy. But I guess that the husbands don’t need an escort:

Surely points #3 and #4, can be answered without talking about your temple ceremony.

And if you use non specific language and speak in general terms, perhaps you can answer the other points as well?

 

[AtticusFinch]

I have not been to the temple since 1989. I know things changed since then. I believe that the part where a Catholic Priest is the agent of Satan has been changed. I believe that women no longer pledge obedience to their husbands, but I am not sure.

1.) The women whisper their secret names to their husbands and to nobody else, because the husband has to call her by her secret name to bring her up to the Celestial Kingdom.

Yes. You stand on one side of the veil and grasp your wife’s hand and recite all the secret names and handshakes (lots of Masonic stuff) and then bring her thru the veil.

2.) The men DO NOT have to whisper their secret names to their wives.

True

3.) The men can become gods, but the WOMEN CANNOT become gods.

True. In fact, there is polygamy in heaven. Polygamy was never stopped. It was just postponed.

4.) …women will be considered as “ORNAMENTS” in the kingdom of their husband who has become a “god”:

I never heard this before. This one is new to me.

5.) …women must be escorted by their husbands or a proxy. But I guess that the husbands don’t need an escort:

Men are pulled thru the veil first by someone. You are asked the same questions you are going to ask your wife. You tell the person your secret name and answer the questions and they pull you thru. Then you turn and ask your wife those questions and get her secret name.

 

[ParkerD]

Answersplease,
I have the lingering impression that I should respond to your question in a way I hope will make sense to you. (It makes sense to me.)

First, your question deals with temple covenants, which always mean that the Savior and the Father are at the center of those covenants, but some are also between a man and his wife and between parents and their children, so those are joint multi-party covenants.

Second, the “secret names” are a very simple idea that happens once in a lifetime per person for each person, and the sharing of the wife’s symbolic name with her covenant marriage husband means that he has just obligated himself by covenant to do everything within his earthly capacity as breadwinner and spiritual capacity as a covenant priesthood bearer, to help her by love and mutual understanding and affection, to come into Heavenly Father’s presence where both receive a crown just as John the apostle saw. (It is a joint throne for each, the husband and the wife together, and shared with the Savior who made such a covenant and such a crown possible.)

She has also covenanted with him just as shown in Genesis as Eve was given to Adam to be a “help meet” for him, to do just exactly that and take their full lifetimes to do that. They jointly covenant to do that for each other.

I think the ornament idea makes no sense to me.

Christ was already resurrected, as have been many since He was. They will be involved in helping others through that process. It is all made possible by Christ, but others become involved through the power of the priesthood. That is why the woman can’t just resurrect herself by herself.

Have a peaceful day.

 

[AtticusFinch]

Not sure I would agree that all convenants made in the temple are centered on Christ. There are several times you agree to let yourself be killed in horrible ways if you reveal the temple secrets. One way is to asllow your throat to be sliced open. Another way is to your stomach be sliced open. I truly do not believe those covenants are centered around Christ.

 

[pinay]

An appeal to all - especially to the few LDS members here.

It is impossible to counter answersplease allegations/questions/whatevers against the LDS church. To address it in the manner that he posts his questions is going to do nothing but drive the Spirit out of these discussions. It is of complete disrespect to the sacred temple ordinances of the LDS church to discuss temple ordinances in this manner.

I am sure that these types of “attack” against the Catholic church in this forum will be enough reason to shut down the thread. I don’t ask that the same courtesy be given to the LDS church since this is, after all, a Catholic forum. But, I would like to ask that these posts be moved to its own thread somewhere that is perfectly labeled - anti-Mormon thread or something. So everybody knows exactly what they are.

I apologize if this post causes contention. It is not my intent.

Answersplease, I encourage you to ask away but to please keep to the thread topic and not just “shotgun” your way through them. It is not helping anybody see the point you are trying to make. I highly recommend that you post your questions to Forums - ThirdHour. You’ll hit a lot more LDS people there who will be willing to take you on. I advice that you ask your questions sincerely though, otherwise, they would just think you a troll and ignore you anyway.

Answersplease, I sincerely hope you find all the answers you are looking for. God bless.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed.
Anyone wishing to ask questions of LDS members is directed to open individual threads on single topics as per the Forum Rules.