A Muslim woman lashed in Sudan for wearing trousers.

[Sam_777]

Update from the Sudanese president regarding the lashing incident:

*19 December 2010:
"Mr Bashir also commented on a recent high-profile case in which a video posted on the internet showed a woman being flogged by police in the north.

“If she is lashed according to Sharia law, there is no investigation. Why are some people ashamed? This is Sharia,” the president said."*

(E) (A)

 

[seraphime2008]

Update from the Sudanese president regarding the lashing incident:

*19 December 2010:
"Mr Bashir also commented on a recent high-profile case in which a video posted on the internet showed a woman being flogged by police in the north.

“If she is lashed according to Sharia law, there is no investigation. Why are some people ashamed? This is Sharia,” the president said."*

(E) (A)

shame!! shame !!! shame!!

 

[elwill]

Update from the Sudanese president regarding the lashing incident:

*19 December 2010:
"Mr Bashir also commented on a recent high-profile case in which a video posted on the internet showed a woman being flogged by police in the north.

“If she is lashed according to Sharia law, there is no investigation. Why are some people ashamed? This is Sharia,” the president said."*

(E) (A)

what is really shame is that you know that their is no evidence from sunnah or quran that such acts from women deserve lashed

so my conclusion , muslims who will trust it to be from islamic teaching is blind follower for someone
while people of knowledge and rational people who seek to know the truth wherever it exist will asking about evidences from quran and sunnah to back up thier views

let us agree that laching women for wearing pants not exist in teaching of islam ( sunnah & quran )

peace

 

[men0wjv]

Update from the Sudanese president regarding the lashing incident:

*19 December 2010:
"Mr Bashir also commented on a recent high-profile case in which a video posted on the internet showed a woman being flogged by police in the north.

“If she is lashed according to Sharia law, there is no investigation. Why are some people ashamed? This is Sharia,” the president said."*

(E) (A)

I don’t see how any of your posts help ‘mutual understanding’ - which is what the Pope is preaching. So are you better than His Holiness now?

Mr Bashir is a soldier, he has no authority on Islamic Law, he is an extreme leader that grew up rather like Iran as a response to the agrressive secular government that preceded him. Once again heresay and mere opinion, the essence of ignorance.

Clearly you can see the unfairness of all this, In my religion we are taught that these whisperings of half truths are from the devil because they undermine society and cause hatred. Is it fair of me to point to Father L M Murphy who abused 200 deaf boys over 25 years and the Vatican covered it up (here)? If this is unfair (which it is) and misrepresentative of the Church then why is it fair and representative of Islam? You could disagree with his practices, so why can’t Muslims disagree with the cases you bring forward? Its not part of Islamic Law because that would entail proof from the Qur’an, Sunnah, Ijma’, Qiyas etc, of which you have not or ever done!

I know you are angry and are mistreated by you Saudi colleagues and I empathise, but Islam is not your enemy, they are. If your treated with injustice then I’ll stand up for your rights, not just from a personal perspective but my religion commands it! God will take care of these people, so there is no need to get angry, we’re all in His hands thats the beauty of faith

 

[FindingNemo]

I don’t see how any of your posts help ‘mutual understanding’ - which is what the Pope is preaching.

Quite write. Sam777, you’re just undoing all the Holy Father’s good work.

Reading the paper reports of the original BBC story suggests that the law in Sudan for wearing trousers is a fine. Lashing seems to be for indecency, which is not defined so we have no idea what that entails?
‘Last year, a Sudanese journalist was fined for wearing trousers but said several of her companions had been whipped after pleading guilty to contravening indecency laws’.

Also it does not seem like it was greeted by the people well:
“Humiliating your women is humiliating all your people,” the women shouted
Strange as it may seem to us Westerners, Muslims generally like their religion, so why are they protesting. Also the govenor of Khatoum said:
“Whatever the crime, what the policemen have done on the video is wrong, is unacceptable and is shameful.”
There is a suggestion the police took the matter into their own hands.

Also the ‘Human rights activists have accused the police of treating the woman in a particularly brutal way not compatible with Islam.’
Like the Muslims are saying, it doesn’t sound like its part of Islam, just a notoriously corrupt and extreme government.

We have a history of burning people, its a good job this wasn’t brought up now was it? I don’t think we could defend that

Deo valenti

 

[men0wjv]

Quite write.

Thanks for that

 

[dzheremi]

How is Sam in any way hurting the work of the Vatican? Bashir said that! By making Bashir’s opinion known, I would think it hurts Bashir in the eyes of the world much more than it in any way effects the Vatican or the Roman Pope.

You guys are ridiculous sometimes. The one who is reporting without commentary is wrong somehow, but the fact that it is Bashir and the Sudanese state who make this about Islam is shouted down by cries of “unfairness”. Yes, yes…we, the non-Muslims of the world who are outside looking in on the Islamic societies, surely are being unfair by simply reporting that these things happen. Reality certainly has an anti-Islamic slant to it.

 

[seraphime2008]

How is Sam in any way hurting the work of the Vatican? Bashir said that! By making Bashir’s opinion known, I would think it hurts Bashir in the eyes of the world much more than it in any way effects the Vatican or the Roman Pope.

You guys are ridiculous sometimes. The one who is reporting without commentary is wrong somehow, but the fact that it is Bashir and the Sudanese state who make this about Islam is shouted down by cries of “unfairness”. Yes, yes…we, the non-Muslims of the world who are outside looking in on the Islamic societies, surely are being unfair by simply reporting that these things happen. Reality certainly has an anti-Islamic slant to it.

Good!!! Thumbs up!!

 

[thedarknight]

Update from the Sudanese president regarding the lashing incident:

*19 December 2010:
"Mr Bashir also commented on a recent high-profile case in which a video posted on the internet showed a woman being flogged by police in the north.

“If she is lashed according to Sharia law, there is no investigation. Why are some people ashamed? This is Sharia,” the president said."*

(E) (A)

Thank you for the updated information via BBC. I watched the video of the woman being whipped; disgusting and degrading.

Here is a link that gives us all hope, excerpt via Catholic Sentinel “Catholic radio gives citizens voice on democracy in Southern Sudan”:

JUBA, Southern Sudan — A feisty Catholic radio station in Southern Sudan has opened the airwaves to ordinary citizens to express their views on how democracy will take shape in what may soon become Africa’s newest country.

Radio Bakhita, a project of the Archdiocese of Juba, has incurred opposition from government officials and even sparked a rebuke from church leaders, yet its director, Mexican Comboni Sister Cecilia Sierra, says the station will continue helping people construct a new nation in the wake of decades of war.

“With a highly illiterate population and poor infrastructure, the only way to effectively communicate with people in Southern Sudan is radio. Yet, more than just giving people information, we offer a platform for people to communicate among themselves, a place for them to express their views and opinions and feel like active members of whatever is taking place,” Sister Sierra told Catholic News Service.

Named after Josephine Bakhita, a slave girl from Darfur who went on to become Sudan’s first Catholic saint, the station broadcasts in a local version of Arabic, as well as in English and a host of local languages. Such versatility has helped the station reach people who have not felt included in the political development of the semi-autonomous country, which signed a cease-fire with the government in Khartoum in 2005. A referendum on independence is scheduled Jan. 9.

Please keep Sudan and its people in your prayers; I fear violence will erupt as the South of Sudan gradually secedes.

 

[thedarknight]

How is Sam in any way hurting the work of the Vatican? Bashir said that! By making Bashir’s opinion known, I would think it hurts Bashir in the eyes of the world much more than it in any way effects the Vatican or the Roman Pope.

You guys are ridiculous sometimes. The one who is reporting without commentary is wrong somehow, but the fact that it is Bashir and the Sudanese state who make this about Islam is shouted down by cries of “unfairness”. Yes, yes…we, the non-Muslims of the world who are outside looking in on the Islamic societies, surely are being unfair by simply reporting that these things happen. Reality certainly has an anti-Islamic slant to it.

I agree with your comment. The issue that I see as a problem within the Islam world is the lack of a central authority figure to denounce violence and religious persecution in the name of Islam by other Muslims.

Thank you for providing the link, Sam_777 to the thread “A Common Word,” as I have been reading the discussion. Though it is old, we all continue to face the issues discussed at present. Now, let me quote, dzheremi, a comment he made in the thread in response to** men0wjv** which pertains to central authority of Islam:

This is not what I meant, but thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject anyway. I actually meant the same point I have been making over and over, that the lack of central authority within Islam creates a situation where the problems of unchecked personal interpretation (like bin Laden’s) cannot really be stopped once it is “loose”. The Al-Qaeda ideology (which is not really new, of course, but is a new variation of an old idea) is now all over and no single Muslim body can stop it…it will take a united front of ALL Muslims, and that is unlikely to happen so long as people are allowed to remain comfortable by distancing themselves from the “bad guys” like Al-Qaeda instead of confronting them head on. This is happening in places, and getting good results, but it runs up against the tradition that a person’s “Muslimness” (for lack of a better way to put it) is not the business of another Muslim.

Who in the world of Islam will/has spoken against Bashir of his determination to force sharia upon Sudan?

 

[Sam_777]

so my conclusion , muslims who will trust it to be from islamic teaching is blind follower for someone
while people of knowledge and rational people who seek to know the truth wherever it exist will asking about evidences from quran and sunnah to back up thier views

You know that in Islam you have to follow Fatwas or the Imams for the ambiguous issues, and the Sudanese president is considered the main Imam for the Sudanese people as King Abdullah is our Saudi main Imam (aka, ولاة الأمر).

However, the issue here is not whether that lashing was the right punishment or not, the issue here that we will continue to have such incidents in the Islamic world whether we agree with it or not, the only solution is to bring mercy to the heart of those people and the only way for that is at least letting them hear Jesus’ words without the intention of converting them (leaving the conversion part to Jesus Himself to knock on their hearts).

 

[Sam_777]

Reality certainly has an anti-Islamic slant to it.

Please keep Sudan and its people in your prayers;

 

[AliBaba82]

How is Sam in any way hurting the work of the Vatican? Bashir said that! By making Bashir’s opinion known, I would think it hurts Bashir in the eyes of the world much more than it in any way effects the Vatican or the Roman Pope.

You guys are ridiculous sometimes. The one who is reporting without commentary is wrong somehow, but the fact that it is Bashir and the Sudanese state who make this about Islam is shouted down by cries of “unfairness”. Yes, yes…we, the non-Muslims of the world who are outside looking in on the Islamic societies, surely are being unfair by simply reporting that these things happen. Reality certainly has an anti-Islamic slant to it.

Hello all, may I interject

It seems like people are just slightly misunderstanding each other and this is causing a bit of anger. I just thought I’d make some comments in the hope it calms the seemingly inevitable spiral out of control.

I think the first thing that might help would be why did you start this thread Sam777? Should it be to encourage people to offer prayers for these poor people then I’m sure we all agree You did make some comment about reminding us that there is a lack of love in the world. With respect I do not think posting these stories alone will increase love.

I think the Muslims are a little upset because they are worried that people may think because Bashir lashes women and calls it Shariah then people may think all Muslims lash women and it is Shariah. So we perhaps need to clear that up, maybe this was never Sam777’s intention? I think the unfairness that was mentioned was really why this story, why not the suffering in East Timor, for example. Whatever the intention it comes across as a bit provocative, perhaps in future you may wish to clearly state your intentions?

The Common Word thread was very interesting and yes we Muslims need to think about how we are to re-organize. Islam has the tools of authority etc, but circumstance has now created an authority crisis. It is not really bourne out of Islam, since authority has not historically been a problem, but rather the pathetic state the Muslims are now in. There are signs of improvement, but this will take time.

Do you think there is an anti-Christian slant in the media? The ‘Muslim World’ has a lot of problems, but its complicated and requires intelligent thinking and engagement. Distrust and anger and stories (they may not be fully true afterall? They may even be worse?) do not help intelligent thinking and engagement which perhpas what was meant by the undoing of the Pope’s good work.

Anyway, lets all take a step back and try again, maybe take a little longer writing our comments. Sorry for my poor effort