Great! So, that small non-denom “ecclesial community” is performing a baptism. You would agree that the Church is there!
It is partially there. Not the entirety of the visible Church that He founded, and neither do you!!! If you did, you would follow their teachings. By not doing so, you are implicitly denying that they have any authority over you. Which means you acknowledge that non-denominational is not the one Church He founded. But you admitted earlier that He founded one, and that it would last into perpetuity. So where is that one Church He founded that can bind your conscience Jon?
Who said they rejected Christ? Would you say that those who rejected Chalcedon rejected Christ? Clearly we reject their view of Christ, but that doesn’t mean they reject Christ!
Tell me this, if you accept part of Christ’s message, but reject other parts, are you accepting Christ, or rejecting Him? He clearly said if they reject the ones He sent, they reject Him.
Which brings us again to Antioch. The Council of Jerusalem sent word to Antioch to stop pestering the Gentiles. If Antioch had rejected that teaching, according to you the Apostles would have still felt Antioch was a part of Christ’s visible Church. But Christ himself said if people did not listen, kick them out.
You have given to the believer the power to determine if they are a member of Christ’s Church, whilst Jesus clearly gives that authority to make that determination to His Church.
But He also did not define the Church as one institution. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is found where the faithful gather around word and sacrament. It is at my Anglican parish, the Vatican, The local OCA parish, etc. The Spirit is guiding His Church, sadly divided though we may be.
The visible Church must be one institution. Otherwise, you have the Spirit in one institution saying homosexuality is wrong, whilst the Spirit says in another it is okay. Surely you can see how your statement of more than one institution makes no sense.
You assume here that the Catholic church in communion with the Bishop of Rome is Christ’s one Church. That’s an assumption I don’t accept.
I know you don’t accept it, that is why you are Anglican. But if you read my posts, you would see that I have been careful not to say which visible institution is His one Church. I simply said it exists.
His Church certainly includes the CC, and indeed one could say the CC is central in the Church Militant, but it is not only and exclusively His Church. There is no scriptural or Traditional reason to hold that position, though I’m sure it would be, and probably has been, an interesting thread.
Well, you admitted He founded a visible Church. You admitted that Church cannot officially teach error. Then you go on to name several institutions that you say are Christ’s visible Church, none of which you let bind your conscience I might add, and all of them officially teach something that is in contradiction to the others. Only one Church did He give the authority to bind and loose our consciences.
Actually, I don’t. I do, however, believe that people in His Church can teach in error.
Good. What is your criteria for when that Church can officially bind your conscience? I contend that you have shown, on numerous occasions, that it is your interpretation of Scripture that binds, and not one of those institutions that you named above has ever bound you. You have become your own shepherd.
Which speaks to the need of the collective, conciliar Church. The Power of the Keys belongs to the Church Universal.
That’s not what Chrysostom said. Conciliar is important, but quite clearly Jesus only gave the keys to one Apostle, so The Power of the Keys belongs to Peter, and his successors.
You are the first Christian I have ever met that says there is error in Heaven, because that is what you have just stated. If you turn around and say there is no error in Heaven, then you must admit nothing fallible can ever be loosed in Heaven.
By the way Jon, you have seemingly lived a contradiction.
1.) You admitted that Christ founded one Church.
2.) You admitted that Christ’s Church would last into perpetuity.
3.) You admitted that Christ’s Church can never officially teach error.
4.) You have said the the Church at the time that held the council at Nicaea was Christ’s Church.
5.) We know that Church officially taught there are seven sacraments.
6.) By extension of number five, if any belong to a Church that holds less than seven sacraments, in your eyes they cannot be part of the official Church Christ founded. They might be connected in an imperfect way, but objectively, they are not full fledged members of His Church, wherever that may be.
