A New Approach - Tollerance

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Stoned_Italy

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Hello Everyone,

I would like to propose a new approach to Catholicism;

STOP TRYING TO CONVERT.

We are in 2010, where there are 7 bilion human lives on this planet, every single one entitled to their own opinion. This religion is already the basis of our society today. I mean, look at the time for example! It’s 2010 A.D. Our calendar is based on the years before and after the death of Jesus Christ.

So basically everyone knows the Catholic Community exists.

So, why do you have the natural tendency to try and convert other people to your religion, especially young minds? I was on a website called Habbo today with the sole purpose of questioning young children about their religion beliefs. 7 out of 10 children were Catholic, and 7 out of the 7 didn’t even know why. Religion should be something that people willingly do into, not something people are forced into.

My idea is to let everyone live their lives, and if people are interested in Catholicism, GOOD! Let them join! Stop trying to spread the message, please.

Peace.
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You expect kids to understand something that grown adults are still learning? So you propose that parents go to church and leave the kids home never telling them exactly why or where they are going just to preserve your notion of imposing no religion on them? The parents are just left to HOPE that their kids somehow magically learn the faith and traditions? You say we should stop trying to convert then you say that we shouldnt even teach the faith to our own kids or raise them in the faith!!! Are you insane!!! So much for your belief in tolerance. You post should read more like raise them as atheists and never mention a thing to them about the faith because of the off chance they might feel forced into it. Heck, the parents even going to church can be seen as forcing the faith on kids because the kids may want to go with the parents and will follow their lead regardless of what the parents teach at home. Its a lose-lose situation you are putting us in. We are darned if we do and darned if we dont!

Also, by your reasoning everybody should stop campaigning regardless of what they believe. No more political campaigns, no more trying to stamp out racism and sexism, no more advertising for any products, and no more trying to promote tolerance and peace because everyone already knows about these things if they want to follow them, so why push it on people? Everybody knows about atheism, so why push atheism and no religion when everybody knows about it?

How about a little tolerance on your side for us? A grown man challenging little kids religious beliefs before they have a chance to grow up and even learn about their own faith and using it to say that is indicative of ALL Catholics is a cheap shot and dishonest.

Oh and your tolerance does not extend to understanding why Catholic try to convert others. Ignoring the fact that Catholics do not do it as loudly as other groups, it you were truly tolerant you would understand why we want to bring people into the faith. Your tolerance precludes a live and let live approach to letting religions do their evangelization but promotes an imposed atheism on children. How interesting lol.

BTW, I think 1.2 billion Chinese and many others would disagree with your statement on being “entitled” to an opinion. Without a God, their rights come from their governments and many governments choose to restrict the freedom of people in many different areas. Only if there is an objective power like God is the freedom of speech, religion and conscience an “entitlement”. Otherwise the government can choose whether or not they have that right. In China, unless you are part of the state sanctioned religions you have no freedom of conscience and no recourse to say you do. If you try there is a nice bullet waiting for your head. There is your atheist tolerance for you: China!
 
Thank you so much for your post. Tollerance yes, but we have the duty to expose all of humankind to the beauty of the Bride of Christ which is the Church.

Protestant churches of all kinds, if they baptize and believe in Christ as the Son of God can certainly claim the right to call themselves Christian, of this there is no doubt as it is written in the catecism of the Catholic Church.

Non-Christian religion, Muslims, Mormons, Witnesses, the various eastern cults such as the Hindu’s all have some truth in them but only the Catholic Church as founded by Jesus Christ the Son of God has all of the truth that God has revealed to man.

Yes,I tollorate other beliefs. I do not advocate forceful conversions but the Great Commission tells us we MUST share the faith. If I do not follow the Great Commission I am turning my back on those in need, boh those in Protestant fellowships and those in non-Christian fellowships. I do not think that “everyone can believe what they want” is God’s will for humans because He wants us to know Him as He really is. That relationship requires access to the truth and that truth is available in its fullness with the Catholic Chruch.

We cannot force people to convert to the Catholic Church, but we can be good examples and show them that Christ does make a difference in our life. We can preach to them through example.

The brand of tollerance you envison states that every church and belief is just as good as every other. While this is a most comforting thought, it has no basis in reality. We need to be gentle with one another especially when we are delaing with religion, but we must be willing to stand up for the truth. God bless you.
 
If you knew something,or Someone that could change a persons life to the good,would you share that infomation or keep it to yourself?If you believed in an afterlife,and knew the answer to achieve an afterlife filled with eternal joy would you share this info with others?If you are filled with the love of Christ you cannot help but share His love with others.What differance does the date make?
 
ToLLerance? Lol

Aren’t you trying to convert us to your own idea as well? With your mantra of “leave people alone,” aren’t you trying to forcibly change us?

Advice for atheists: just stop talking. The more you say the more opportunities sane people have to laugh at your lies.
 
Forgive my bluntness; this is atypical for me, but this may be the DUMBEST statement that I’ve ever heard on this board! ALL points of view, philosophies, ideas, religions, etc. try to propagate themselves. I work as an historian. Should I not try to teach future generations about what happened in the past? If I was a mathematician or a scientist, should I not teach my trade to a future generation? By definition, if we don’t spread our message, then our philosophies, ideas, religion, history, and everything else will die out. If you turned the statement around and said, “Well, since everyone already knows about Christianity, we shouldn’t try to spread the message of atheism / agnosticism to anyone, especially young minds, because what’s the point?”, you would see that it sounds absurd! Parents naturally try to pass on their beliefs to their children, and there’s NOTHING wrong with that. Businesses try to survive by advertising and spreading their product. Alexander the Great pitched the Hellenistic philosophy in every country he conquered. This is not just inevitable, it’s part of human culture and EXPECTED.

Tolerance means that you allow other ideas and philosophies to live side-by-side with you, and that you don’t try to FORCE people into your belief system. However, that doesn’t mean that you have to AGREE with those other beliefs in any way. That ALSO doesn’t mean you can’t convince people to your own belief system with a good old fashioned, well thought out argument. If an idea is worthy of adoption, that people can study the facts and use REASON to figure that out for themselves. One could argue, in fact, that it would be undemocratic of us NOT to put our ideas out there so that people could make an informed choice.
 
My goodness, why on earth would you be probing children on a website about their faith? What interest is it of yours? And for what purpose? Why should it matter to you how one raises their children?

Hello? what do you exect out of small children? They barely undersand what they learn in school yet they move on to graduate from grammar school and high school. How are they going to learn about the traditions of their parents without being taught, just like anything else they’re taught.

One needs to give their children a solid foundation which will enable them to make the decision to either be Catholic (or not) when they are older. Just like you would teach your children math, English, or even why it’s not nice to take away someone’s doll, or push them down, or bite when angry, you need to teach them the basics of faith. Just because YOU don’t believe in God doesn’t mean we have to deny our faith for your benefit, or deny our children the same. It’s ridiculous to think that you can raise a child without any knowedge of God, and then expect them to make sound choices as a teenager or young adult. Learning is a process by which you build on knowledge. You wouldn’t hand an 18 year old a calculus exam without teaching basic math. I don’t think any sane Catholic wants to force their religion down anyone, we want our children to make conscious decisions as adults and come to the Church on their own. At least I do, and that’s part of my foundation.

We, as Catholics, have to tolerate a lot of nonsense that we consider immoral (and some more than others): half-nekkid bimbos on billboards, sex snuck in interesting programs just to hook in people without any moral or brain substance at all, a world of drugs, alcohol and smoking pushed as being ‘oh so kewl’ to our children. So I guess you’re going to have to tolerate us, aren’t you?

Freedom of religion goes both ways. You have no right to tell us how to raise our children. I’ll never force my views on you, but I constantly say, I WILL NOT live by someone else’s beliefs.

And hey, why are you here? Did the Ghost of Gigabytes take over your computer and plant your right here? Or, did you come here just to tell us off? Ok, duly noted. Have a nice life and may God’s peace and love be with you always :signofcross:
 
Stoned,

As a corollary, what do you think would happen if we did not force kids to go to school? Allow the kids to decide for themselves if they “feel” like going. In a few decades, we’ll have hordes of uneducated barbarian selfish feelgooders acting upon their most basic temporary, shallow instincts, less able to place the needs of others ahead of self. They’ll walk around like they’re carrying a sugar bowl and a teaspoon: any time they want their next temporary high, they’ll dip their teaspoon in and take a mouthful, only to have the high wear off shortly thereafter. It will lead them on an endless quest for more intense highs through materialism, sex, gambling, drugs, alcohol, etc. until they eventually become desperate and hit rock bottom. History has already seen it a few thousand years ago. Unfortunately, that’s sometimes what it takes to see the light. Many good Catholics were born that way. See the DVDs of how Fr. John Corapi was a Hollywood junkie, hit rock bottom, then saw the light. Or, one can just trust your parents. If you’re in the “question everything and don’t believe until they provide answers” crowd, read “The Faith Explained” by Leo Trese. He supplies the answers that traditional Catholic teaching lacks.
 
Stoned_Italy said:
Hello Everyone,

I would like to propose a new approach to Catholicism;

STOP TRYING TO CONVERT.

We are in 2010, where there are 7 bilion human lives on this planet, every single one entitled to their own opinion. This religion is already the basis of our society today. I mean, look at the time for example! It’s 2010 A.D. Our calendar is based on the years before and after the death of Jesus Christ.

So basically everyone knows the Catholic Community exists.

So, why do you have the natural tendency to try and convert other people to your religion, especially young minds? I was on a website called Habbo today with the sole purpose of questioning young children about their religion beliefs. 7 out of 10 children were Catholic, and 7 out of the 7 didn’t even know why. Religion should be something that people willingly do into, not something people are forced into.

My idea is to let everyone live their lives, and if people are interested in Catholicism, GOOD! Let them join! Stop trying to spread the message, please.

Peace.
X
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In the wise words of an atheist:
youtube.com/watch?v=owZc3Xq8obk

“How much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?”
 
Some people can go overboard or not know their limitations, but to not share the truth about God’s love for us at all? That’s the right thing to do? That’s nice? :rolleyes:

I don’t think so.

I’m with Musicality on this one.
 
Stoned_Italy said:
Hello Everyone,

I would like to propose a new approach to Catholicism;

STOP TRYING TO CONVERT.

We are in 2010, where there are 7 bilion human lives on this planet, every single one entitled to their own opinion. This religion is already the basis of our society today. I mean, look at the time for example! It’s 2010 A.D. Our calendar is based on the years before and after the death of Jesus Christ.

So basically everyone knows the Catholic Community exists.

So, why do you have the natural tendency to try and convert other people to your religion, especially young minds? I was on a website called Habbo today with the sole purpose of questioning young children about their religion beliefs. 7 out of 10 children were Catholic, and 7 out of the 7 didn’t even know why. Religion should be something that people willingly do into, not something people are forced into.

My idea is to let everyone live their lives, and if people are interested in Catholicism, GOOD! Let them join! Stop trying to spread the message, please.

Peace.
X
Click to expand...
Oh sure I’d love to help you spread that message… just first tell your friend Mr. Dawkins and the obnoxious atheists on YouTube to shut up first before you come over and tell us to not proselytize. :mad:

I don’t support proselytizing either regardless of whatever belief system (be it a philosophy or a religion). It just causes people to fight amongst each other these days. However, if you think you so-called “tolerant” atheists have your hands clean of that then you need to wake up.

Trust me, this is coming from someone who likes poking fun at street preachers. However, until you guys disband the likes of groups such as the Rational Respond Squad, expect me to consider atheists such are yourselves hypocritical whenever you cry about religious people proselytizing you.

And for the record? It is the right of every parent to indoctrinate their children into whatever belief system they want. They’re their children. What are you a social worker? Whatever happened to the fine line between teaching your kids and domestic abuse? :ehh:
 
ljubim said:
ToLLerance? Lol

Aren’t you trying to convert us to your own idea as well? With your mantra of “leave people alone,” aren’t you trying to forcibly change us?

Advice for atheists: just stop talking. The more you say the more opportunities sane people have to laugh at your lies.
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I have to agree completly! Amen!
 
What’s this ‘new idea’ business? Ever since the 60s we’ve been hearing exactly the same thing that you’ve said.

And you want to be ‘tolerated’? I don’t ‘tolerate’ the opinions of equals, or of people I respect.

I ‘tolerate’ bratty five-year-olds who are trashing the supermarket, because if I don’t I can’t get my shopping done. I ‘tolerate’ psychotic bosses at work, but only for as long as it takes me to find another job.

You want me to think of you like that? Of course not.

If you want me to respect your views, then respect mine.

Respect the fact that God has commanded us to make disciples of all nations, and that means that whilever there are unbelievers out there, our task isn’t complete.

Respect that I don’t proselytise or shove my faith down anyone’s throat. Many people who know me likely don’t even know I’m Catholic.

Respect that neither do 99.9% of Catholics proselytise. In my experience Catholicism is one of the LEAST proselytising faiths in existence. We don’t go door to door, we virtually never preach on street corners, or put up giant billboards on freeways, or take out ads in newspapers, and we don’t blow airplanes or buildings (or ourselves or other people) up in the name of our God.

Plenty of people who come on here wanting to join, or to return to, the Catholic Church, actually don’t know what the process is for doing so and have to find us and ask us. That’s how much we’re NOT out there trying to corral people into converting to Catholicism!
 
Mere humans can’t convert anyone. We can plant seeds…tell people about the Gospel and the Truth about Jesus Christ…pray for them…but God does the converting through His grace. 🙂
 
whatevergirl said:
Mere humans can’t convert anyone. We can plant seeds…tell people about the Gospel and the Truth about Jesus Christ…pray for them…but God does the converting through His grace. 🙂
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I didn’t mean to say that conversion is all our doing, of course it isn’t and can’t be, but the OP, it seems, doesn’t EVEN want us to plant the seedsn you mention. 🙂
 
Obviously a troll since no further response. Of course, based on the “intelligence” of the original post - I think that’s a good thing for all of us.

Everyone has responded in a way that reflects my thoughts & feelings as well…

As stated by Rence - "My goodness, why on earth would you be probing children on a website about their faith? What interest is it of yours? And for what purpose? "

I’m worried about the intent and other things this original poster is up to and are the definition of why parents need to monitor what kids are doing with their web time.
 
LilyM said:
What’s this ‘new idea’ business? Ever since the 60s we’ve been hearing exactly the same thing that you’ve said.

And you want to be ‘tolerated’? I don’t ‘tolerate’ the opinions of equals, or of people I respect.

I ‘tolerate’ bratty five-year-olds who are trashing the supermarket, because if I don’t I can’t get my shopping done. I ‘tolerate’ psychotic bosses at work, but only for as long as it takes me to find another job.

You want me to think of you like that? Of course not.

If you want me to respect your views, then respect mine.

Respect the fact that God has commanded us to make disciples of all nations, and that means that whilever there are unbelievers out there, our task isn’t complete.

Respect that I don’t proselytise or shove my faith down anyone’s throat. Many people who know me likely don’t even know I’m Catholic.

Respect that neither do 99.9% of Catholics proselytise. In my experience Catholicism is one of the LEAST proselytising faiths in existence. We don’t go door to door, we virtually never preach on street corners, or put up giant billboards on freeways, or take out ads in newspapers, and we don’t blow airplanes or buildings (or ourselves or other people) up in the name of our God.

Plenty of people who come on here wanting to join, or to return to, the Catholic Church, actually don’t know what the process is for doing so and have to find us and ask us. That’s how much we’re NOT out there trying to corral people into converting to Catholicism!
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Lily, big +1 right here.

I do believe in freedom of expression. Every has the right to what they believe and express what they believe. However, there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed. Religious people spreading their ideas can be frustrating to non-religious or those of different religions because the topics dealt with often aren’t/can’t be explained logically. Matters of faith are very often not based solely in logic. I believe it is important to remember that people aren’t required to agree with you or like your opinions. I also think that responding to animosity with animosity only propagates negative stereotypes about religion, and making it clear that you understand the other person’s belief whether or not you agree goes a long way toward charity.

Eamon
 
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