A potential problem with forgiveness/redemption

[N0X3x]

I’ve come up with a potential problem recently, and it has been making me reluctant to go to confession.

We are told that God so loved the world that he came to earth to die for mankind’s sins, and that because of this, if we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be forgiven. The thing is, every time we ask for forgiveness, we are essentially asking the only truly innocent man who ever walked the earth to be tortured to death over crimes that we committed. It seems evil for any of us to ask this of another human being, let alone God, regardless of whether the person was willing to do this or not. Considering the closest thing to a role reversal I can think of, I think that if Mary (I use Mary because using Jesus might not make sense in this context) had committed a single sin, she would not ask an innocent person to be tortured to death for her sake even to save herself from eternal damnation. In other words, asking for forgiveness seems unloving, cruel, and extremely selfish.

Does anyone know of a way to resolve this problem?

 

[4love2God]

NOX3x said** : “I’ve come up with a potential problem recently, and it has been making me reluctant to go to Confession.
We are told that God so loved the world that he came to earth to die for mankind’s sins, and that because of this, if we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be forgiven.
The thing is … It seems evil for any of us to ask this of another human being, let alone God, regardless of whether the person was willing to do this or not…
Does anyone know of a way to resolve this problem?”**

Sure, if it bothers you, STOP going to Confession.

If you think you are acting in an “EVIL” manner, then Stop doing it.
Certainly God does NOT want you to do things you consider EVIL (although Satan might like it).

Obviously you said that Jesus died for our Sins, and that we can ask Jesus to Forgive Sins.
So, if you choose to NOT take Jesus up on His offer, that is fine with me
In fact, it may be FINE for Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus says "My Yoke is Light."
You feel a very HEAVY Yoke … so you are either confused, or are lying about its weight.

 

[Robert_Sock]

NOX3x said** : “I’ve come up with a potential problem recently, and it has been making me reluctant to go to Confession.
We are told that God so loved the world that he came to earth to die for mankind’s sins, and that because of this, if we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be forgiven.
The thing is … It seems evil for any of us to ask this of another human being, let alone God, regardless of whether the person was willing to do this or not…
Does anyone know of a way to resolve this problem?”**

Sure, if it bothers you, STOP going to Confession.

If you think you are acting in an “EVIL” manner, then Stop doing it.
Certainly God does NOT want you to do things you consider EVIL (although Satan might like it).

Obviously you said that Jesus died for our Sins, and that we can ask Jesus to Forgive Sins.
So, if you choose to NOT take Jesus up on His offer, that is fine with me
In fact, it may be FINE for Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus says "My Yoke is Light."
You feel a very HEAVY Yoke … so you are either confused, or are lying about its weight.

My, you have a way with words! Why on earth would you urge him not to go to confession?

 

[marywarfield]

I’ve come up with a potential problem recently, and it has been making me reluctant to go to confession.

We are told that God so loved the world that he came to earth to die for mankind’s sins, and that because of this, if we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be forgiven. The thing is, every time we ask for forgiveness, we are essentially asking the only truly innocent man who ever walked the earth to be tortured to death over crimes that we committed. It seems evil for any of us to ask this of another human being, let alone God, regardless of whether the person was willing to do this or not. Considering the closest thing to a role reversal I can think of, I think that if Mary (I use Mary because using Jesus might not make sense in this context) had committed a single sin, she would not ask an innocent person to be tortured to death for her sake even to save herself from eternal damnation. In other words, asking for forgiveness seems unloving, cruel, and extremely selfish.

Does anyone know of a way to resolve this problem?

You seem to be forgetting that Jesus died once and for all.
He resurrected. And ascended.
You cannot torture Jesus Christ. You can only torture
yourself.

 

[Lrabbitt]

Dear friend in Christ - Jesus suffered and died once for all sinners and all sins. Asking forgiveness does not equate asking Jesus to be tortured and die again. God’s wisdom understands that we humans, scarred by Original Sin, need forgiveness on a continual basis. Go to Confession at peace with the understanding that Jesus, the Divine Physician, is wanting to heal your brokenness with great love and compassion,

 

[Petaro]

NOX3x said** : “I’ve come up with a potential problem recently, and it has been making me reluctant to go to Confession.
We are told that God so loved the world that he came to earth to die for mankind’s sins, and that because of this, if we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be forgiven.
The thing is … It seems evil for any of us to ask this of another human being, let alone God, regardless of whether the person was willing to do this or not…
Does anyone know of a way to resolve this problem?”**

Sure, if it bothers you, STOP going to Confession.

If you think you are acting in an “EVIL” manner, then Stop doing it.
Certainly God does NOT want you to do things you consider EVIL (although Satan might like it).

Obviously you said that Jesus died for our Sins, and that we can ask Jesus to Forgive Sins.
So, if you choose to NOT take Jesus up on His offer, that is fine with me
In fact, it may be FINE for Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus says "My Yoke is Light."
You feel a very HEAVY Yoke … so you are either confused, or are lying about its weight.

Little harsh, Kiddo! You can see the poster’s point, that they see it as a terrible ask for Jesus to have suffered for our sins. But I think your point is that this is the great gift Jesus gave out of His love for us.
It is like your parents scrimping and saving all their lives for a college fund that they know will assure your future. What an insult to throw such a tremendous gift back in the face of your parents, much less your God. If we choose not to accept it out of some over emphasized humility, then this humility can be seen as pride." No thanks, I couldn’t ask it of you, very kind but I can get by on my own."
But of course we can’t get by on our own. Jesus knows this and even though as a man He called to His Father in the Garden to be relieved of this pain He took it on Himself out of pure love for us. We cannot insult such a gift with refusal.

 

[CarmelJerome]

I’ve come up with a potential problem recently, and it has been making me reluctant to go to confession.

We are told that God so loved the world that he came to earth to die for mankind’s sins, and that because of this, if we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be forgiven. The thing is, every time we ask for forgiveness, we are essentially asking the only truly innocent man who ever walked the earth to be tortured to death over crimes that we committed. It seems evil for any of us to ask this of another human being, let alone God, regardless of whether the person was willing to do this or not. Considering the closest thing to a role reversal I can think of, I think that if Mary (I use Mary because using Jesus might not make sense in this context) had committed a single sin, she would not ask an innocent person to be tortured to death for her sake even to save herself from eternal damnation. In other words, asking for forgiveness seems unloving, cruel, and extremely selfish.

Does anyone know of a way to resolve this problem?

We didn’t ask for Jesus to be crucified; in fact, we wouldn’t have dared to think of such a thing. It’s Jesus who was sent, who concurred with the plan of His Father, and who accepted the means as the manner with which humanity, hardened in heart, blind in soul, frightened and alarmed by the prospect of God, could be won to the side of love.

The sacrifice has been made, was made without our asking, and without our consenting to the plan to begin with; the light that enlightens every man has come into the world. Now we can avail ourselves of it, and to refuse it on the basis that my own conscience is too delicate to permit such a thing is at the very least a confused proposition.

There are numerous accounts and parables in the gospels of those who refuse the invitation of Christ. And in C.S. Lewis’ allegory “The Great Divorce”, one of the spirits visiting Heaven says to one of the redeemed, one of the Solid People, “I don’t need your bleedin’ charity!” and the Solid Person says “Accept it – accept the Bleeding Charity.” It’s the only road to joy.

 

[Abu]

N0X3x #1
asking for forgiveness seems unloving, cruel, and extremely selfish.

The unloving, cruel and extremely selfish act is to commit grave sin. Why doubt The Son of God? God chose freely to take human nature as the Christ, to suffer and die on the Cross, to reopen heaven to us. If you are sorry for your sins then Christ has instituted the Sacrament of Penance in which you ask for forgiveness through His Sacrament given to His Church.

“Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;” (Acts 13:38).
“In Him we have the redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.” (Eph 1:7).

Modern Catholic Dictionary by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.
FORGIVENESS. Pardon or remission of an offense. The Catholic Church believes that sins forgiven are actually removed from the soul (John 20) and not merely covered over by the merits of Christ. Only God can forgive sins, since he alone can restore sanctifying grace to a person who has sinned gravely and thereby lost the state of grace. God forgives sins to the truly repentant either immediately through an act of perfect contrition or mediately through a sacrament. The sacraments primarily directed to the forgiveness of sins are baptism and penance, and secondarily, under certain conditions, also the sacrament of anointing.
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl

 

[ccmnxc]

Maybe the perspective is the issue here. The way I see it, Christ died regardless of what we do or what we ask of Him. He did so for the sake of our redemption. It seems like it would almost make a waste of the sacrifice not to confess, but again, it might be a perspective thing.

 

[4love2God]

Petaro responds to my Post** : “Little harsh, Kiddo! You can see the poster’s point, that they see it as a terrible ask for Jesus to have suffered for our sins. But I think your point is that this is the great gift Jesus gave out of His love for us.”**

No, not exactly.

Absence makes the Heart grow Fonder.

If the OP feels like he is doing the Wrong thing (but KEEPS doing that thing he thinks is wrong), this is a Good Way to ruin one’s Faith.
Over the next YEAR, he can be wracked with Confusion about approaching our Lord and God for the gift He is holding for him.
This may seriously (and adversely) affect his Faith.

Better, to skip a few Confessions, and see if you feel the SAME Way about it . . . THEN.
In my Life, if I feel that something may be WRONG, I stop doing it for a while.
Then, the Answer comes to me : (a) It IS Wrong to do … or, (almost all of the Time), (b) I was over-reacting, and it is NOT Wrong.

If a person is TOO AFRAID to try to Help his Spirituality, then he is losing the Chance to (maybe) find a Break-Through Point, which will DOUBLE his Faith.

 

[N0X3x]

Most of you mentioned that Jesus has already died on the cross, and that to neglect to ask for forgiveness would be similar to rejecting an incredibly valuable gift that can’t be taken back.

But we have to remember that God is timeless, and also that, at least according to some of the theology I’ve read, Jesus not only underwent the physical passion (other people throughout history have endured tortures equally or perhaps even more violent), but also carried the spiritual weight of the sins of humanity, along with the weight of original sin. I personally doubt that Jesus would carry in that already enormous burden the sins of those who never ask forgiveness for them, and never would ask for forgiveness for them. So Jesus, knowing from eternity that I would not ask him to carry the burden of my sins, would not have had to carry the weight of my particular sins on the cross.

secondly, I further doubt that Jesus would have undergone the passion if every human being who ever existed had refused to ask him for forgiveness, as the cross would not have had any point under those circumstances. So essentially, it’s okay for me to ask for Jesus to be tortured for me only because other people had already asked him to be tortured for *their *sakes and Jesus was going to do it anyway? Something seems seriously off about that moral judgement; it violates the categorical imperative, if nothing else.

The whole prospect makes it seem to me like we’d be taking advantage of Jesus’s omnibenevolence to save our own skins–or souls; *using * the sacrifice of an innocent man–not to mention innocent God–to secure our own eternal joy.

I may very well be missing something, but as I see it, asking for such a thing would be unspeakably presumptuous and evil.

 

[4love2God]

OH … the Thread makes a sharp RIGHT Turn :

NOX3x claims : **"God is timeless, and … Jesus not only underwent the physical passion … but also carried the spiritual weight of the sins of humanity, along with the weight of original sin. I personally doubt that Jesus would carry … the sins of those who never ask forgiveness for them … So Jesus, knowing from eternity that I would not ask him to carry the burden of my sins, would not have had to carry the weight of my particular sins on the cross.

secondly, I further doubt that Jesus would have undergone the passion if every human being who ever existed had refused to ask him for forgiveness… So essentially, it’s okay for me to ask for Jesus to be tortured for me only because other people had already asked him to be tortured for their sakes and Jesus was going to do it anyway? Something seems seriously off about that moral judgment; it violates the categorical imperative, if nothing else.**

**The whole prospect makes it seem to me like we’d be taking advantage of Jesus’s omnibenevolence to save our own skins–or … to secure our own eternal joy.

I may very well be missing something, but as I see it, asking for such a thing would be unspeakably presumptuous and evil."**

OK, first NOX3x claims** : " I personally doubt that Jesus would carry … the sins of those who never ask forgiveness for them … So Jesus … would not have had to carry the weight of my particular sins on the Cross."**

Since Jesus was living His Life as a Man, at least 10 Billion people have been Born, and have DIED.
Of those 10 Billion, I assume that there have been at LEAST one Billion Catholics have passed through.
And, at least another Billion-or-so Protestants (who also rely of Jesus to forgive their Sins).

So, IF Jesus had offered-Himself-on-the Cross for ONLY these Human Beings, then your Sins, would be about 0.00000001% of the Sins.
It appears that you are saying that Jesus was trying to Save Energy, by only dying for those Followers who would go to Confession, and ask for Forgiveness of the effects of those Sins.

I do not find this argument Compelling.
Because I believe that Jesus died on the Cross for the Sins of all the non-Christians too.
This does NOT mean that Jesus must FORGIVE all of the Sins of every Human Being, but only that Jesus Died so he COULD Forgive the sins of every Human Being.

And, if we assume that Jesus is NOT coming for His SECOND Coming for many more years, then the number of people who have Jesus Christ as their Forgiver of Sins, will increase geometrically.

Then, NOX3x posits : "I further doubt that Jesus would have undergone the passion if every human being who ever existed [after His Ascension] had refused to ask him for forgiveness… So essentially, it’s okay for me to ask for Jesus to be tortured for me only because other people had already asked him to be tortured for their sakes and Jesus was going to do it anyway?"

Gee, this has quite a few “holes” in it.

1. Jesus was NOT Tortured. He simply died on the Cross.
   Jesus was an Enlightened Being by the time he died on the Cross.
   Many later Martyrs WERE Tortured, but they were happily Singing and Praying while that torture went on.
   This tells me that if you are Happy with God, that you can ignore things that would Normally bother you.
   So, if Martyrs can laugh at their Pain, then I assume that Jesus Christ Himself, could too.

2)** “I further doubt that Jesus would have undergone the passion if every human being who ever existed [after His Ascension] had refused to ask him for forgiveness.”**
I always love it when people say that God HAD to do something (or, WOULDN’T have done something, that He did).
Little Human minds, pretending that they can look into the mind of God.

I believe that God had a pretty-good idea that at least a few people would ask for forgiveness.
In fact, I am pretty sure that the Apostles asked for forgiveness of their Sins.
Certainly, during His ministry, Jesus forgave the Sins of several People (like the Cripple, lying on his Mat … and at least 2 other occasions).
So, the event of dying on the Cross did NOT empower Jesus to Forgive Sins.
Therefore, the Passion has NO part in Jesus having the ability to Forgive Sins.

1. "The whole prospect makes it seem to me like we’d be taking advantage of Jesus’s omnibenevolence to save our own skins–or … to secure our own eternal joy."
   Yeah, that’s about it.
   Jesus died on the Cross to save our Skins from burning in Hell for eternity.
   And, instead of burning in Hell, many people who choose to ask Jesus to Forgive their Sins, do that to experience “our own eternal joy” … which is, Go to live in Heaven.
   But, you seem to be claiming that this is a Bad Thing.
   I think that you have it Backwards.

4)** “I may very well be missing something, but as I see it, asking for such a thing would be unspeakably presumptuous and evil.”**
So, you believe that it is an Evil act for Jesus to Forgive our Sins?
And, you think that asking Jesus to Forgive your Sins (after Jesus asked us to come to Him for this EXACT purpose) is Evil?

Well, if I tell someone that I will do a Favor for him (like give him a Ride to Church), I would NOT think that he was (somehow) EVIL for accepting the Ride.

This is the same as Jesus making you an offer to give you a Free Ride to Heaven.
Part of the Journey to Heaven is having your Original Sin (and other accumulated Sins) to NOT prevent you from being allowed into Heaven.

So, if you don’t care to go to Heaven (AND, actually are Hoping to burn in Hell), just spit on Jesus (and His offer to Forgive your Sins).
You can Love Jesus, or you can Hate Jesus … it is YOUR Choice.

(There are other “Clinkers” in what you said. If you ask, I will respond further.)