A problem with Immaculate Conception

[Lillith]

A big thank you to Della…RNRobert…and Grateful4Mercy (nice to meet you BTW)…

I now have a bit better of an understanding of God, and Time!

Robert…your analogy of the parade most fits the line that I envisioned …Della’s was the easiest…I feel like life is a carousel…I’ll have to think on the Peter Kreeft thought

 

[perivitmihi]

I agree with “Catholig” 100 %. I think that through Jesus’ death started the new covenant which brought to us Baptism in the place of curcumcision in order for us to be freed from original sin. So in that way His death did contribute to us losing our original sin; howver, the immediate result we get from His death is the forgiveness of sins that had been committed (excluding Original Sin) and through His resurrection we get the forgiveness of all the sins that we commit now and will commit in the future, if we ask for it of course. If, through Jesus’ death original sin was wiped away, then Baptism would only be symbolic and we would not need it b/c nobody would have any original sin that needed washing away. Good question, and I hope that this is not as confusing as I think it may be.

Pax tecum and God bless,

Perivitmihi

 

[Subrosa]

I don’t know if that is correct under Catholic theology. I’ll assume it is. But then it begs teh question, if GOd could save us without sacrificing his son, why do it. How does needlessly sacrificing His son demonstrate love? I can see the argument that if it was necessary, it was an act of Love. But if it wasn’t necessary, what exactly was it?

Hi Valke -

This question is answered in the christian scripture. Read the Book to the Hebrews (I know, it is an irony!) Hebrews

Anyway, this book explains the reason Christ died in detail.

The short answer is this - Adam and Eve commited sin: the Original Sin that stained the rest of humanity. G-d gave Moses and Aaron the Levitical priesthood and commanded them to give Him holocosts, animal sacrifices. The sacrifices were made to forgive the sins of the Hebrews, as described in Exodus and Leviticus.

The sacrifice of Christ was the ultimate sacrifice in which the Original Sin of the First Parents has been reconciled for all time. No longer are the Levitical sacrifices needed for Christ’s sacrifice fulfills all that is required for reconciliation.

Here’s the hitch - Christ’s sacrifice has “opened the gates of heaven,” so to say. His sacrifice indeed opened the gates to all of humanity, including the Jews. It is up to us to willingly become holy through a sincerely holy lifestyle, modelled on G-d’s laws. The laws themselves no longer have meaning, but knowing them tells us what sin IS. Faith is also a requirement to pass through the gates.

In Catholic theology, Jesus’ sacrifice takes place every day at the holy Liturgy - the Mass. The other posters spoke about G-d not being limited by time. The mass brings us to the sacrifice Christ made on the cross, at the time he did it.

Subrosa

 

[Valke2]

Just posting a general thank you for many of the responses. Quite informative.

 

[Ghosty]

I’m not sure if anyone said this or not, but I don’t think god (Jesus) came and died for us to save us from “original sin”. He came and died to allow us into heaven (if indeed I understand correctly), but it is baptism that rids us of original sin.

Baptism is nothing but a participation in the Crucifixion, as St. Paul says. There is no seperation between Baptism and the Crucifixion: it is the Crucifixion that removes all sin, Original and personal, and it is Baptism that brings us to that Crucifixion. From the Catechism:

**1227 **According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ’s death, is buried with him, and rises with him: Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
The baptized have “put on Christ.” Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.

Incidently, this is why Christ bled blood and water at the Crucifixion: the Eucharist, the food of spiritual life, and water, the birth of spiritual life.

Peace and God bless!