A question about images

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stephen_Teo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Stephen_Teo

Guest
I must admit that your webpage is the most user unfriendly I ever come across so far. I believe you are a computer gaget, a genious programmer. So many windows to access. In order to be able to paticipate your forum, one must read thro’ the do and the don’t, that’s find. One must also need to understand what is a thread, a post, a quick jump, etc etc so many of them. Then finally one is able to paticipate in the discussion forum. By the the time you are already in it. You may not get an answer. So you wonder where have my staff gone? 2billion catholic ask, how frustrated. make it simple, let the questions and answers flow naturally. Let the chief editor or the experts answer them accordingly.

I simply want to ask a question. Why do catholic church hangs statues all over the walls? where in the bible say it is alright. if our mind set is not well verse with the scripture meaning, then we might end up worship the idols.

unconvencing.
 
Stephen,

I’m a convert from fundamentalist Protestantism, and I admit that in the early months of my conversion, I had problems with several things that Catholics find normal, such as the imagery, statues, Marian devotions, etc. It took me quite a bit of time and study to get over the indoctrinations of Protestantism that had so distorted my faith. It appears that you also are suffering from such Protestant distortions. Judging from the fact that you’ve been hanging out here for a year, perhaps you are being led by God into a more complete understanding of Christianity. I would encourage you to be patient, continue to inquire, pray. Understand that all things Catholic are correct, that Catholicism is the perfect expression of Christianity. You won’t be able to unindoctrinate yourself overnight. It will take time.

As for your specific answer regarding statues, Catholics do not worship idols. We do venerate the saints, but not worship. There is a big difference. We venerate the people of faith who went before us, who we know are now in the presence of God. A statue, or a painting, or other image, helps us in our veneration. Same as a statue of, say, George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln, helps us to visualize these great men and inspire greater admiration for them. I recently visited the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C. The statue of Lincoln inspired a very emotional reaction in me, and I could see that many others there were crying. We weren’t worshipping Lincoln, or the statue of Lincoln, any more than we worship a statue of St. Joseph or The Blessed Virgin Mary. I won’t say that it is impossible for a Catholic to worship a statue, but this would be a very serious violation of the commandment to worship only God, and very much against Catholic teaching.
 
Stephen_Teo said:
I must admit that your webpage is the most user unfriendly I ever come across so far. I believe you are a computer gaget, a genious programmer. So many windows to access. In order to be able to paticipate your forum, one must read thro’ the do and the don’t, that’s find. One must also need to understand what is a thread, a post, a quick jump, etc etc so many of them. Then finally one is able to paticipate in the discussion forum. By the the time you are already in it. You may not get an answer. So you wonder where have my staff gone? 2billion catholic ask, how frustrated. make it simple, let the questions and answers flow naturally. Let the chief editor or the experts answer them accordingly.

I simply want to ask a question. Why do catholic church hangs statues all over the walls? where in the bible say it is alright. if our mind set is not well verse with the scripture meaning, then we might end up worship the idols.

unconvencing.
Click to expand...
every internet forum I have been on has rules, this one is no different. it should take you no more than 15 minutes to read them.
the topics discussed on each forum are different, and are described under the title of each forum.
there is a search function to find topics that have already been discussed
you are right, the people who designed and maintain this site are geniuses

if you have a question that requires an expert answer, go to Ask an Aplogist. yes, it may take a few days to answer, they are not robots

if you want to participate in an informed discussion on a topic, go to the relevant forum. Makes no point to ask a question about scripture on the parenting forum.

You will get a lot more out of the forums if you first spend time on the CA homepage, reading the tracts and articles on your topic of interest. Then come here to pose a specific question and generate discussion.

when you are in a discussion on one thread, common courtesy (and forum rules) say please do not change the topic in mid-thread.

If you just want a Q&A site may I suggest EWTN at ewtn.com click on Faith, then on Q&A, you can also search there by topic.

for longer articles on specific topics posed by questioners, similar to the question you are asking hear, go to Catholics United for the Faith at cuf.org and click on Faith Facts.

for the record, we do not worship idols. displaying a picture or statue of a saint in church is no different than displaying a statue of Andrew Jackson on the public square or a picture of your grandmother on your mantel. They are remembrances of beloved respected people who have died.

the center of every Catholic Church is the altar of sacrifice where the Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary is continuously present (not re-enacted, not done over and over again), Catholics are in no doubt about this.

(Edited)
 
Posts split and moved to Apologetics for answers.
  1. This is a post.
  2. A thread is a series of posts dealing with a single topic.
  3. Quick Jump is simply a software tool that will move you from forum to forum.
  4. Expert responses can be got by posting the question in the Ask An Apologist forum at the very top of the list of forums.
  5. I am the Apologetics Moderator and if you have questions or problems you can write to me HERE.
 
Stephen,

I am sorry you are having a hard time navigating these forums.

Let me restate your question. Why does the Catholic Church have statues?

Answer: These are our family pictures which we have placed around our home (which is the church). They remind us of our ancestors in the Faith. They remind us to strive to do good and be perfect as Christ is perfect.

Where does the bible say it is alright?

Answer: Where does it say it isn’t? Paul says to imitate him as he imitates Christ. The Church has always held the Saints in high esteem and has strived to imitate their holiness.

If our minds are not well versed in scripture, then we might end up worshiping the idols.

Answer: Statues of the saints are NOT idols. They are our portraits of beloved family members who finished the race ahead of us and are still cheering us on in our race to victory in Christ.The saints help us retain our focus on Christ and live for him instead of living for this world. The sacrifices they made for Christ help us to persevere for Christ in times when we are persecuted for our faith. A Christian could no more worship a saint than they could worship their own brother or sister.
 
Hi, … about worshipping statues.

Say, for example, I walked into your church. And I see statues on the walls.
Do I stagger backwards in shock, and assume that you worship statues - and then run straight to you to accuse you of being an Idol worshipper. No, of course not.
I read your own official guide to what you teach, first.

The simple solution to your predicament is not to let your preconceptions and prejudices lead you by the nose.
So…, as Catholicism has 2000 years of written history, and everything that Catholicism teaches, and has ever taught, is recorded and widely available to everyone, it should be no problem to you to find some type of written instructions to the Catholic Faithful ordering them to worship Idols/Statues/Paintings etc… if it is true.
If it was true there must be some official teaching on Idol Worshipping.
You will find it if you look, - good luck!
 
Stephen -

Pardon the simplicity of my answer. I would say that Catholic Churches have statues for much the same reason we Americans have memorials to and statues and pictures of famous Americans, including especially our presidents. We believe that their lives are exemplary and are encouraged to imitate them.

Chuck
 
Opposition to Images, paintings and statues is supposedly based on the Ten Commandments;

Exodus 20:4-5: “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God…”

This commandment was interpreted by many Protestants, as it had once been by the eastern iconoclasts, as forbidding the use of any sort of picture or statue in church. Unlike, say, the Moslems, Protestants did not interpret it as banning non-religious paintings, drawings and statuary.

So why Ignore the commandment?
Because the commandment does not actually say what some people interpret it to say… The word “graven image” in the King James version is actually better translated “idol”, and that is how most modern versions render it. Actually, the passage does not forbid producing images at all, or even pronounce against using them in churches. It is against producing and **worshipping idols **in place of the true God.

How can we know this?
Well, God wouldn’t give the Israelites orders that broke the very commandments he had just given them, would he? But if you adopt the Protestant interpretation of this commandment, that is exactly what he does:

In Exodus 25, God orders Moses to build an Ark to hold the commandments. He tells Moses how to build the Ark and cover it with pure gold, adding:

Exodus 25:18-19: “And make two cherubim (angels) out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other…The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them.”

So here we have God himself ordering Moses to produce religious statues of angels, immediately after the commandments had been given! Therefore the iconoclast interpretation of this commandment must be wrong.

Again, in Numbers 21:8-9, when the Israelites were plagued by serpents, the Lord told Moses to “Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that everyone who is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live”. Moses did so, and people were healed by looking at it! If God opposed all images, why would he have chosen to heal His people through one, and even made it a type of the Messiah (John 3:14-5)?

1 Kings 6:29 says that the walls of the Temple were covered with “carved figures of cherubims, and palm trees, and open flowers, within & without”.

1 Kings 6:31-35 tells that the doors to the inner sanctuary and the main doors of the Temple were also covered with gilded images of cherubim, palm trees and open flowers.

2 Chronicles 3:14 says that the great curtain of the temple was also covered in images of angels

2 Chronicles 4:2-4 shows that twelve metal bulls facing towards the four points of the compass, supported the “sea”, the ritual water tank of the priesthood.
**
2 Chronicles 3:10-13 **tells us that Solomon had two huge golden statues of angels constructed for the Holy of holies - in addition to the two on top of the Ark.

Does God ever object to this proliferation of images in the Temple?
No. In fact in 2 Chronicles 7: 12-18 He blesses the Temple indicating His divine pleasure. The Temple of Solomon, therefore, resembled a Catholic church more than a typical Protestant one!
 
Another interesting side point to this discussion is the fact that while images were around in Catholic Churches from the beginning, they really start to take off after the fall of Rome. Why? Because when Rome collapsed, so did education, and the literacy rate plummeted to barely 1%. So, how would you be able to learn about Christianity? You certainly weren’t going to do it through Bible study, since you probably couldn’t read, and even if you could, there were almost no Bibles, since they had to be hand copied and were incredibly expensive. So, you decorated your church with statues, paintings, and stained glass windows with scenes from the stories of the Bible. Then the priest could take you through and teach you orally, while you looked at the images.
 
You make sense that after the fall of Rome we might see more of everything Catholic … since it wasn’t illegal anymore.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top