A question about self control

[reb108]

For over a month I have been contemplating, “What is self-control?” Thinking about this I have also been looking at, “determination.” As of right now I do not believe they are the same. For example, a skinny fellow joins a gym and every day for 5 years at 7 AM he works out and people say he has such self-control…whereas I am thinking he has no self-control, but determination. For example, one of the Catholic saints I read about, she would walk miles to church and back every Sunday, even in winter, never missing. Here I would say she is exhibiting self-control. Perhaps self-control is spiritualized determination. Without the spiritual component, I do not see determination anything but in a mundane sense. What started me on this track was thinking that without self-control, there is no possibility of saintliness. To think about a Saint without self-control is ridiculous. But really, what exactly is self-control? What and who is the “self” and who and what is in control. But even an atheist can demonstrate great determination. For me, sorting this all has great value. What do you think self-control is?

 

[sl59]

just my interpretation…

“determination” is a strong will to achieve something, or endure something. This might be perfectly in line with my desires or inclinations, but maybe requires a strong act of the will to keep myself doing it, day in day out, such as your example of the man going to gym.

“self-control” is instead the capacity to control my impulses or desires, so that they do not get out of hand. For example, if somebody says something unpleasant about me, I might feel like answering angrily; but if I control myself I should be able to ignore that person or to answer in a polite way.

 

[Joe_5859]

Determination: doing something even though you do not want to do it.

Self-control: not doing something even though you want to do it.

 

[reb108]

just my interpretation…

“determination” is a strong will to achieve something, or endure something. This might be perfectly in line with my desires or inclinations, but maybe requires a strong act of the will to keep myself doing it, day in day out, such as your example of the man going to gym.

“self-control” is instead the capacity to control my impulses or desires, so that they do not get out of hand. For example, if somebody says something unpleasant about me, I might feel like answering angrily; but if I control myself I should be able to ignore that person or to answer in a polite way.

I got something helpful out of your reply. Thanks.

 

[reb108]

Determination: doing something even though you do not want to do it.

Self-control: not doing something even though you want to do it.

Another great reply. Thank you.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

In Greek, the word is egkrateia, which means “government from inside”. The best English word for this is probably “autonomy” – but not in the modern sense of autonomy; rather, in the Kantian sense.

Kant thought most people’s actions were determined by external influences, which made them “like reeds swayed by the wind”. To have autonomy or egkrateia, then, would be to be resistant to external influences.

If a pretty woman walks by and my head turns involuntarily, I obviously am controlled by what is outside me, and I lack egkrateia. It’s fine for us to respond (from our own internal judgment) to outside influences, but it’s never right for us to be controlled by external influences. “I couldn’t help myself” is something a truly virtuous person would never say.

 

[reb108]

Yesterday I was thinking more about all of this. Let’s take a country and pretend that at some point in time ONLY atheist live there. And yet, you would find many examples of determination and self-control. So what I am trying to understand is something a little different. Again, what started me off thinking about this was a sense that Saints have self-control. How can you be saintly without self-control? But then to use this example and say that this rare quality is something shared by both atheists and Saints, seems confusing. Any thoughts?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Yesterday I was thinking more about all of this. Let’s take a country and pretend that at some point in time ONLY atheist live there. And yet, you would find many examples of determination and self-control. So what I am trying to understand is something a little different. Again, what started me off thinking about this was a sense that Saints have self-control. How can you be saintly without self-control? But then to use this example and say that this rare quality is something shared by both atheists and Saints, seems confusing. Any thoughts?

Why is there a problem if some atheists share a good quality with saints?

Heck, even very corrupt people have good qualities. Hit men are very courageous.

 

[WestonGrant]

Determination: doing something even though you do not want to do it.

Self-control: not doing something even though you want to do it.

 

[rinnie]

For over a month I have been contemplating, “What is self-control?” Thinking about this I have also been looking at, “determination.” As of right now I do not believe they are the same. For example, a skinny fellow joins a gym and every day for 5 years at 7 AM he works out and people say he has such self-control…whereas I am thinking he has no self-control, but determination. For example, one of the Catholic saints I read about, she would walk miles to church and back every Sunday, even in winter, never missing. Here I would say she is exhibiting self-control. Perhaps self-control is spiritualized determination. Without the spiritual component, I do not see determination anything but in a mundane sense. What started me on this track was thinking that without self-control, there is no possibility of saintliness. To think about a Saint without self-control is ridiculous. But really, what exactly is self-control? What and who is the “self” and who and what is in control. But even an atheist can demonstrate great determination. For me, sorting this all has great value. What do you think self-control is?

I think it depends on the situation. Say for instance someone says I am going to go on a diet, exercise, eat right, and loose ten pounds in 3 weeks. I have a function and I am determined to get into a dress.

Now you have to be determined to do it, but you also have to exhibit self control to do it also. They go hand in hand, You are determined which means you really want to do this, so then you use this determination and combine it with not letting your eating getting out of control.

Sometimes determination is not enough. I can testify to that. I am determined to loose that ten pounds, but my self control over certain foods takes over my determination to do so.

You have to have both in my opinion or you will not get the effect you are looking for.

I’ll let you know when I can get them both together.

 

[rinnie]

Determination: doing something even though you do not want to do it.

Self-control: not doing something even though you want to do it.

I kind of disagree with your def. of determination, although as it my case its correct

But usually you DO WANT to do something. Like I am determined to save enough money to buy a new house. Now I want to have the money, I want to save the money, and I want the new house.

But the problems is what is given up to get what you want.

 

[rinnie]

Yesterday I was thinking more about all of this. Let’s take a country and pretend that at some point in time ONLY atheist live there. And yet, you would find many examples of determination and self-control. So what I am trying to understand is something a little different. Again, what started me off thinking about this was a sense that Saints have self-control. How can you be saintly without self-control? But then to use this example and say that this rare quality is something shared by both atheists and Saints, seems confusing. Any thoughts?

I guess here they are on the same page. A Saint is determined to follow God and do his works. So he puts the will of God over his will. And his will then becomes the will of God. Like Thy kingdom come THY WILL be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Now atheist puts his will over the will of God. He refuses to put the will Of God over his. The determination and self-control is the same. Just used for different reasons.

 

[Joe_5859]

I kind of disagree with your def. of determination, although as it my case its correct

But usually you DO WANT to do something. Like I am determined to save enough money to buy a new house. Now I want to have the money, I want to save the money, and I want the new house.

But the problems is what is given up to get what you want.

Fair enough. I was trying to be clever. I thought it was a nice turn of phrase.

 

[rinnie]

I Love Clever

 

[reb108]

Still giving this question considerable thought since I originally posted this topic, I now feel as if there are two things here: sense control vs. Self-control. While sense control is found within Self-control, by itself, sense control is purely mundane. However, important for many reasons; one’s health probably at the top of the list. I now view Self-control with a capital “S” rather than a small “s” so as to distinguish between God & myself: “S” vs. “s.” That is, that Self-control is the unique position of a soul placing his life in the control of God, The Almighty Self. Other than this definition, I do not see any other meaning to Self-control. Although sense-control can appear like self-control, for me it has been helpful to tell the two apart. It was odd the other morning. I just happened to flip on the radio last Sunday and the preacher was talking about Self-control.

 

[Michael19682]

Still giving this question considerable thought since I originally posted this topic, I now feel as if there are two things here: sense control vs. Self-control. While sense control is found within Self-control, by itself, sense control is purely mundane. However, important for many reasons; one’s health probably at the top of the list. I now view Self-control with a capital “S” rather than a small “s” so as to distinguish between God & myself: “S” vs. “s.” That is, that Self-control is the unique position of a soul placing his life in the control of God, The Almighty Self. Other than this definition, I do not see any other meaning to Self-control. Although sense-control can appear like self-control, for me it has been helpful to tell the two apart. It was odd the other morning. I just happened to flip on the radio last Sunday and the preacher was talking about Self-control.

It is a very beautiful understanding and philosophy. What do you think of this:

to know and to permit is ‘control’. therefore God is already and always in control of all that happens.

 

[reb108]

What do you think of this: To know and to permit is ‘control’. therefore God is already and always in control of all that happens.

I have read that “not a blade of grass moves without God willing it,” or something like that, to get the point across that God is always in control. But somehow, for me, such a sweeping statement really doesn’t excite me much. I like things more in a personal context, such as the book I am now reading for the second time: The Life of St. Gemma Galgani. She was Self-control personified and at an early age was nearly perfect at sense control. So to read about a soul who became a master of both is fantastic. I bought my copy on Amazon. I see that you can get a primo used copy for around $10. I am going to buy a used one and give it to a friend.