A Question for our Muslim brethren

[Matthew_Holford]

I confess to having the most superficial knowledge of Islam. Yet frequently I hear on news bulletins about disagreements between Shia and Sunni Muslims. I have never heard/seen a newscast that explains how these differ one from the other. I’d like to learn how Shia and Sunni Islam are different.

 

[benidict]

I confess to having the most superficial knowledge of Islam. Yet frequently I hear on news bulletins about disagreements between Shia and Sunni Muslims. I have never heard/seen a newscast that explains how these differ one from the other. I’d like to learn how Shia and Sunni Islam are different.

Well for one thing my brother. There is the holiday of Ashura. this is a commemoration of the death of Mohammeds grandson in battle. The Shia mourne his death at this time, and the Sunni celebrate his death. we had an increase in bombings by both sides during this time, in Iraq, in December. This is just one such holiday. they mark it by killing eachother. they are not My bretheren incidentally, but some I do consider friends on both sides. Peace

 

[Contarini]

Well for one thing my brother. There is the holiday of Ashura. this is a commemoration of the death of Mohammeds grandson in battle. The Shia mourne his death at this time, and the Sunni celebrate his death

What’s your evidence that the Sunnis celebrate the death? I can understand that Sunni militants might think this a good time to kill some Shi’a, but I have never heard that there’s a tradition of Sunnis celebrating the death of Hussein.

Edwin

 

[benidict]

What’s your evidence that the Sunnis celebrate the death? I can understand that Sunni militants might think this a good time to kill some Shi’a, but I have never heard that there’s a tradition of Sunnis celebrating the death of Hussein.

Edwin

My evidence my friend? I am living in this country. we were briefed about this, by our command, 2 weeks before the holiday began. I would say my evidence is experience, and the information given to me, by my command in the U.S. Army.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I grow very weary of this forum. I asked a question about two different branches of Islam. What sort of responses are posted - the usual, stupid, pointless arguments between Christians who are probably not best placed to explain Islam.:sad_yes:

 

[Big_Ro]

I’m not a Muslim but I did study political science and minored in international politics. My recollection is that the split has to do with an argument over the succession to the Prophet after his death. One side favored a blood line and the other favored one more centered on expertise or purity of faith sort of speak. It is my recollection that the Prophet’s last words were somethig to the effect of let he is most worthy succeed. I’m paraphrasing of course. So, this disagreement lead to two factions. The Iranians are mostly Shia and often people confuse this issue. They assume that all Shia are Iranian. Not true. Saudi Arabia is mostly Sunni. But not all Saudi’s are Sunni. However, this does create a poltical/religious/military divide. And remember, the Iranians are not Arabs. They are Persians. Al-Qeada is a Sunni group, for the most part. Saddam Hussein was a Sunni though mostly Atheist in practice. Bin Laden actually supported efforts, by the Kurds, to overthrow him because in Bin Ladens eyes he was an apostate. Most of the violence in the latter part of the Iraq war was a civil war between the Iranian backed Shia and the Saudi backed Sunni. Al-Qeada practices an even more extreme form of Islam that uses a Takfiri approach. They overcome the Koranic prohibition against killing innocents by basically declaring any person that does not adhere to a strict practice of Islam including Sharia Law as being essentially non-human. Sharia law is a set of rules outside the Koran built on quotes from the Prophet. I think I’m mostly accurate since I’m writing from memory. I’m sure some of our Muslim bretheren will come along and severely scold me and make corrections.

 

[benidict]

I grow very weary of this forum. I asked a question about two different branches of Islam. What sort of responses are posted - the usual, stupid, pointless arguments between Christians who are probably not best placed to explain Islam.:sad_yes:

O.K. you asked for some differences, and I gave you one. fair enough?

 

[Contarini]

I confess to having the most superficial knowledge of Islam. Yet frequently I hear on news bulletins about disagreements between Shia and Sunni Muslims. I have never heard/seen a newscast that explains how these differ one from the other. I’d like to learn how Shia and Sunni Islam are different.

Well, I hope you’ll accept answers from non-Muslims too!

Basically the Shi’a believe that Muhammad’s son-in-law Ali was his designated heir and should have become the leader of the Islamic community. Instead, there were three other “caliphs” first, and when Ali did become the caliph he was assassinated. The Umayads, who were the family of the third caliph, then took power. Ali’s son rebelled against them and was ambushed and killed at Karbala with a small band of followers. The Shi’a continued to support Ali’s family, and came to believe that Ali’s descendants were “imams”–divinely ordained leaders who were infallible and (if I’m not mistaken) impeccable. (Sunnis mean something different by the word “imam,” which can be confusing.) The largest Shi’ite group holds that there were twelve such imams, and that the last of them was hidden by God and will return at the end of time.

Sunnis, on the other hand, believe that authority rests on the consensus of the community. Sunnis are the majority, though Shi’ites have ruled parts of the Islamic world at times. Shi’ites have a tradition of martyrdom and have many of their own traditions in addition to the common Islamic beliefs they all share.

 

[Contarini]

My evidence my friend? I am living in this country. we were briefed about this, by our command, 2 weeks before the holiday began. I would say my evidence is experience, and the information given to me, by my command in the U.S. Army.

Again, how would you distinguish between an official, longstanding, common Sunni practice (which is what you imply) and a pattern of violence that has developed in Iraq in recent years?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I grow very weary of this forum. I asked a question about two different branches of Islam. What sort of responses are posted - the usual, stupid, pointless arguments between Christians who are probably not best placed to explain Islam.:sad_yes:

I don’t claim to be a specialist in Islam, but I do teach a class on Religions of the World every semester, for what that’s worth.

You’re actually as likely to get a fair explanation of the subject from a Christian as from a Muslim–maybe more so. It’s like asking Catholics or Protestants to explain their differences.

And why can’t you just consult a reference source, anyway? I’m just telling you what you would learn from any basic source, whether online or in a library.

Edwin

 

[Erich]

And why can’t you just consult a reference source, anyway? I’m just telling you what you would learn from any basic source, whether online or in a library.

tinyurl.com/49vvho4

 

[benidict]

Again, how would you distinguish between an official, longstanding, common Sunni practice (which is what you imply) and a pattern of violence that has developed in Iraq in recent years?

Edwin

These incidents are not only confined to Iraq my friend. This is but one reason why there can never be peace between the two sides, or the global community at large. The issues between the two sides go much deeper than one Holiday. It was just an example I was giving. It is not just Sunni practice but Shia practice. Both are guilty of this type of behavior. I dont take sides. To me, Islam is a culture of death. I get first hand reports, and see it every day. Its kinda like domestic disputes we have in America. Im a M.P. so I get involved in those too. there are no innocent parties. Both are at fault. I remain neutral. Peace

 

[Sam_777]

I’d like to learn how Shia and Sunni Islam are different.

islam.about.com/cs/divisions/f/shia_sunni.htm
religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islamic_sects.htm

and the Sunni celebrate his death.

That is not correct, Sunnis do not “celebrate” it they “fast” it, it’s called “Day of Ashura” where Moses fasted that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt (The Exodus) according to this hadith.

I asked a question about two different branches of Islam. What sort of responses are posted - the usual, stupid, pointless arguments between Christians

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Maybe you can be more charitable in the future so that you do not hurt the feelings of your brothers and sisters in Christ…

 

[benidict]

islam.about.com/cs/divisions/f/shia_sunni.htm
religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islamic_sects.htm

That is not correct, Sunnis do not “celebrate” it they “fast” it, it’s called “Day of Ashura” where Moses fasted that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt (The Exodus) according to this hadith.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Maybe you can be more charitable in the future so that you do not hurt the feelings of your brothers and sisters in Christ…

And I thank you for the correction Sam. It is good to have you on here to clear up any misconceptions. Peace to you and yours.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I haven’t heard much lately on Egypt. I notice the muslim brother from Egypt hasn’t been around, they must have communications up and running by now. Hows that new government working out?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Maybe you can be more charitable in the future so that you do not hurt the feelings of your brothers and sisters in Christ…

Thank you very much for your contribution to the Thread. However, I am not in need of your advice on how to behave.

My comments were perfectly valid. I posed a question about Islam. At the time I posted the comments to which you refer, the only responses were arguments that made no valid contribution to the intent of the Thread. Others since have been made (as all too frequently happens in this particular Forum) negative criticisms of the Islamic faith. Perhaps you have no objections to these (often badly informed) criticisms of Islam.

I am not obliged to state the impetus for posing my question. However, I had hoped to hear what Muslims had to say. This often gives better clarity than reference sources.

 

[zdon011]

[That is not correct, Sunnis do not “celebrate” it they “fast” it, it’s called “Day of Ashura” where Moses fasted that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt (The Exodus) according to this hadith](That is not correct, Sunnis do not “celebrate” it they “fast” it, it’s called “Day of Ashura” where Moses fasted that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt (The Exodus) according to this ).

:thumbsup:Very interesting, Sam. Thank you!
The impression I had got was that the Sunni-Shiite division was essentially a cross between an ideological schism and a dynastic struggle (like if we mixed up the Sino-Soviet split and the Wars of the Roses, perhaps!), and also based on disagreements over what was canonical Mohammedan Tradition and what was not–the Pharisee/Sadducee rivalry comes to mind.

On a side note, a single saying from Mohammed is often recounted in radically different ways in different Hadiths: what makes these compilations very interesting is what they choose to repeat.
GaryTaylor;7575015:

I haven’t heard much lately on Egypt. I notice the muslim brother from Egypt hasn’t been around, they must have communications up and running by now. Hows that new government working out?

The Church in Egypt needs our prayers at this time, I’m sure