A question for Protestants how do you explain (John 6: 40)

[ufamtobie]

Considering he didn’t use the Word Eucharist in that passage, the “probably” that you harped on is closer to “not at all” what he had on his mind.

And don’t use caps, it’s rude

Oh I use caps not to be rude, I use Caps becuase, I am shouting it out from the housetops (Matt 10: 27) What I tell you in darkness, speak in the light. what you hear in private, Proclaime it from HOUSTOPS. This mean to shout it OUT.

Tell me then, The Father wants us ALL to SEE our LORD AND BELIEVE in Him…How can we do that today?

Just as moses lift up the Sera Serpent on a pole in the Desert, all that were bitten by that sera serpent, many died. Then GOD told Moses have everyone look at the Sera Serpent and those who did look at it, ALL recovered and was saved/recovered… Triune, Now HERE today in our PRESENCE is something FAR GREATER than the Sera Serpent, and that is Christ Jesus, in the MOST HOLY EUCHARIST! …That All of US may behold "SEE’’ Him and BELIEVE and be RAISED on the last day.

Where can you ACTUALLY see the Lord Jesus Christ Today, Hmm, of course Our Lord Is everywhere Spiritually, meaning he is here with us but we can’t see Him. But if You want to SEE him PHYSICALLY, the way God the Father wants us ALL to See Him and BELIEVE in (John 6: 40) then YOU have to come to a local Catholic Church, He is there waiting for YOU to visit him in the Most Blessed EUCHARIST.

God Bless you on your journey Home

Ufamtobie

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

There is a connection, certainly. Since none of us were present, in time, 2000 years ago…the saving grace of Christ’s perfect life, and atoning death, as our substitute, cannot be communicated to us from the cross.

Gabriel
I disagree, what Jesus did on the cross 2000 years ago is communicated to all ages, not just those of the first century. Dont you know that Jesus went down to sheol to set the captives free from ages past from his first century sacrifice, delivered those from the present and today because of his sacrifice. That is why the Eucharist is so important in the new covenant, because Jesus is lifted up in time from eternity in the Mass, and we know that when this is done he is the “IAM”.

It is communicated to us through the proclamation of the Word, the Lord’s Supper, and Holy Baptism. I think Fr. Corapi once explained that once very well, by saying the sacraments are like a baseball hurled through time to bring the grace of 2000 years ago to us, today.

Gabriel
I have no problems with Fr. Corapi. The Eucharist is the body and blood sacrifice of Jesus, that is what is being presented here. Remember this quote “Do this in memory of me” Our priest in persona Christ confects the Eucharist, and prays to God to accept this offering as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. God is making this once and for all sacrifice, present to all ages to be saved from death. What is significant here, in this blessed sacrament we are commanded to consume the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood, from all the other sacraments. Remember too, that the Eucharist is for the believer, not the unbeliever, for to not discern the body and blood of Jesus brings about a curse.

However, the passages directly do not address the Eucharist as is being presented in this thread.

Gabriel
**John 8:28
So Jesus said (to them), "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM,

The first people within the hearing of these words, did not have a clue to what Jesus was talking about when he said this. This Gospel did not get written decades later. The lifting up of the Son of Man, does reflect his crucifixion. But to us Catholics this scripture pertains to the present as it did in the first century. We believe in his true presence in the Eucharist, and we see the priest lift up the host, there are trumpet blasts, bells, followed by silence and a kneeling, because Jesus is being lifted up to God for our sins.**

As far as the sacrificial nature of the Sacrament, that is where we part ways. It is not Christ being offered, it is Christ coming down to us, to impart His Body and Blood to us for our forgiveness. Wholly the work of God.

Gabriel
Well truthfully, we are both right and both wrong. The blessed Sacrament does both and then some, Jesus comes to us as our bride groom, and the body, blood of Jesus is making atonement for our sins eternally, parts grace to our souls, and his flesh and blood is food for our souls when we passover from life through death into eternity with God. So the Eucharist meaning cannot be exhausted with one definition, for it is all of the above. This mystery cannot be exhausted by the human mind and one definition from man.

Peace

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

No, He didn’t intend it to be limited to the 1st century cross; on that we agree.

I think it may be safe to end in agreement here, for the rest will take exegesis from the text, to break down the scripture. Jesus makes two comments in scripture that are recorded in the present tense, that is practiced in the Mass. One the lifting up of Jesus; body, blood, soul and divinity. Second, Jesus states to the unbelieving Jews, “You will not SEE ME AGAIN, until you say” “blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord”. Catholics see Jesus at every Mass, after we exclaim “blessed is he, blessed is he oh, blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord” Jesus prophecy is fulfilled in the Mass here. I dont think a first century interpretation is contested here. But any practicing Catholic cannot disagree that this does not take place in the Mass, verbatim.

But to say he here refers to the Eucharist as opposed to solely the action of His being crucified is stretching to text into deep eisegetical territory. He here refers to the cross; His Supper, however, promises to give us the graces He won on the cross for us; He specifies this more clearly in the institution passages.

**Remember what takes place in the last supper. Jesus begins to suffer, because he already begins to seperate his body and blood in the sacred Eucharist, this is the beginning of his passion, then later sweats blood…

Peace**

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

So, you seem to be saying that only people who receive the Eucharist through the RCC can be saved. Is that right?

Ridiculous I say. No loving god would be that exclusive.

No, the Eucharist is for the journeying of the believer from life into eternity this promise is given to the believer by God himself. Only the children of God can receive Jesus, body, blood soul and divinity. An unbeliever is cursed if he does so without discerning the body,blood of Jesus.

The Eucharist is for the already (Baptised) saved children of God. The Eucharist is much more than what has been revealed here.

Only those who eat the body of Jesus and drink the blood of Jesus in his Eucharist are given eternal life. That is what scripture teaches, the Catholic church does not make up the rules here, she only follows what Jesus commands of her.

Peace

 

[Namesake]

No, the Eucharist is for the journeying of the believer from life into eternity this promise is given to the believer by God himself. Only the children of God can receive Jesus, body, blood soul and divinity. An unbeliever is cursed if he does so without discerning the body,blood of Jesus.

The Eucharist is for the already (Baptised) saved children of God. The Eucharist is much more than what has been revealed here.

Only those who eat the body of Jesus and drink the blood of Jesus in his Eucharist are given eternal life. That is what scripture teaches, the Catholic church does not make up the rules here, she only follows what Jesus commands of her.

Peace

I’ve been so wrong for so long. I really thought that all humans are children of God. Guess not, eh?

Aren’t there some exceptions to that Eucharist deal? How about the millions of humans before the Eucharist was invented? How about the people who die before they receive? There are lots of very intelligent exceptions as you well know.

 

[Robbinson]

So, you seem to be saying that only people who receive the Eucharist through the RCC can be saved. Is that right?

Ridiculous I say. No loving god would be that exclusive.

This is not the view of the Catholic Church (others, correct me if I am wrong as I’m Protestant, though I’ve read the Catholic Catechism). I believe the RCC is of the view that the Eucharist will become the actual blood and body of Christ only if administered by a properly ordained Priest (Holy Orders - thus Catholic) and that, therefore, the Eucharist outsid the Catholic Church does not contain the actual blood and body of Christ. While the Eucharist is extremely important in the Catholic Church - it is not a “necessity” for salvation. Thus Protestant’s are deemed “separated bretheren” but nevertheless Christian in the eyes of the Catholic Church (more than we can say, sadly, for the view of Catholics in the eye of many Protestant denominations).

Blesssing,

Brian

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I’ve been so wrong for so long. I really thought that all humans are children of God. Guess not, eh?

Aren’t there some exceptions to that Eucharist deal? How about the millions of humans before the Eucharist was invented? How about the people who die before they receive? There are lots of very intelligent exceptions as you well know.

No one disputes that man was created in the image and likeness of God, unless your an atheist? Those before the Eucharist were under the law and the prophets, Jesus himself went to preach to these in the 7th day rest at death and set the captives free. To bad for us, we still live since the time of the fulfillment.

The redeemed journey in this desert, just as the Hebrews freed from Egypt slavery journeyed in the desert, and the Rock appeared to give them drink in the desert, and it rained Manna (bread) from heaven to give them life, and the Rock was Christ.

So now the redeemed, freed from sin and death, journey in this desert, because we are not of the world, but we are in the world, so Jesus the true bread from heaven gives us the Eucharist to sustain us in our journey, if and when we cross the Jordan (Death) into the new city the heavenly Jerusalem, and to live eternally in God, where God is all and in all. This is not the instruction from man, this is the commandment of Jesus himself, to consume his body, and blood so as to have eternal life.

We can go much into discussing the desire of baptism that can save you, and those who never got to hear the gospel in life etc… This Eucharist is the promise from God himself, what christian would not want the promise from God to have eternal life, if God instructed what to do, in order to have eternal life; Eat the flesh of Jesus, and drink his blood, This the Catholic church does in “memory” of Jesus in the Eucharist proclaiming his death until he returns.

Peace.