A question for those Traditionalists who attend Catholic Churches not in union with Rome...In light of Code of Canon Law 844.2

  • Thread starter Thread starter StMarina303ad
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
BTW, as you may have guessed, I was being slightly facetious when I said “modernist”. I don’t automatically consider someone a “modernist” because he/she favors communion-before-confirmation, or communion in the hand, or translating “pro multis” as “for all”, or celebrating mass versus populum (although neither am I a fan of any of those four things).
 
giuseppeTO said:
I was brought up in the Latin rite and learned to serve Mass in that rite and I found it most profound.

Neither the Latin rite nor the Eastern rite churches look favorably upon people switching rites.
Click to expand...
Do they “look favorably” upon people going to an SSPX liturgy? :rolleyes:
 
giuseppeTO said:
I was brought up in the Latin rite and learned to serve Mass in that rite and I found it most profound.

Neither the Latin rite nor the Eastern rite churches look favorably upon people switching rites.
Click to expand...
For that matter, any parish can’t look too favorably on losing parishioners to another parish for any reason. 🙂
 
Peter_J said:
Oops … I left out the verb from the last part of that sentence. Meant to ask whether you receive communion at the SSPX chapel.

So you’re a modernist who attends an SSPX chapel?
Click to expand...
I definitely receive Communion at the SSPX why on earth wouldn’t I if I’ve gone so far as to attend their Mass.?
 
Peter_J said:
Do they “look favorably” upon people going to an SSPX liturgy? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
No, neither of the “they’s” want to loose financial support of their respective diocese, whether to the other “regular” rite or to the irregular Society. I don’t believe it has less to do with religion and more to do with money.
 
giuseppeTO said:
Well I’ve never been excommunicated and I believe that I follow all of the infallible teachings that every Pope up through Pope Benedict XVI has promulgated. .
Click to expand...
There have only been two statements in the history of the Church, one in 1854, and one in 1950 that were infallible statements of a Pope. By the way, where does the Church teach infallibly that girls cannot be altar servers and that priests can never be women? It doesn’t teach that anywhere I know of. If I am wrong please provide proof from the solemn definition of an ecumenical council.
 
giuseppeTO said:
I definitely receive Communion at the SSPX why on earth wouldn’t I if I’ve gone so far as to attend their Mass.?
Click to expand...
I’ve attended Eastern Orthodox liturgies a number of times, a PNCC liturgies a few times, but I have never received communion at either one. (Of course, at the EO liturgies they wouldn’t have given me communion even if I had requested it.)
 
GiuseppeTO, I also attend a Society of Pius X Church with absolutely no pangs of guilt whatsoever.Having been a fallen away Catholic for more years than I care to admit,I returned to a N.O. church fairly close to my home.Halfway through the ceremony or service,( I refuse to call it a Mass!) I had to leave. All the Bishops in the USCCB can not make me believe what I witnessed was pleasing to our Saviour, Jesus Christ. After two more tries at two different N.O.Churches, they were pretty much the same.At that time I was a EMT, and on one trip to a local hospital,I met a N.O.priest from Nigeria who was serving as the hospital Chaplain.We talked for awhile and I told him my feelings for the N.O.Mass, and how I would go to a Orthodox Church ( my father and his family were Orthodox) before I would go back to the Churches I went to. He asked if I had heard of the Society of St. Pius X, and I should try them before I did anything else.The closest Church was 52 miles away but that Sunday I went to it.It was like I had never left the Church over 40 years ago.After Mass I sat in my car and cried like a baby. When I say my nightly prayers, I thank God for that Nigerian priest and also for Arch.Lefebvre who kept the ancient rite alive for us.Like Athanasius, I believe he will someday be a Saint.Fear not Giuseppe, God loves you.
 
jfoges said:
By the way, where does the Church teach infallibly that girls cannot be altar servers and that priests can never be women? It doesn’t teach that anywhere I know of. If I am wrong please provide proof from the solemn definition of an ecumenical council.
Click to expand...
There’s nothing about girls being altar boys…but it is beyond belief that you don’t know that women cannot be priests. Here are two examples (though if you want definitions from councils you’ll have to wait a bit):

Of all the people who ever lived, who would be most worthy to be a priest? The BVM, of course. Yet was she one? No. That’s because a woman can bear God, but she cannot be a priest.

The other example; When Christ had risen Mary Magdalen came to throw her arms around the Lord. His reply “noli me tangere”…Do not touch me. However, ‘doubting’ Thomas, the priest and apostle is allowed to touch the lord, and examine his wounds…See what I mean?

And to get back to the original question…This thread was aimed at CMRI and SSPV people, not the SSPXers, right? Because as far as I’ve heard, the SSPX is in communion with Rome (though they claim it’s ‘irregular’). Nevertheless, the communion is there. SSPXers need not reply.
 
Well, as to those who attend SSPV/CMRI and the like, it is because we(many, not all) do not accept VII and the conciar popes. To go to an Eastern Rite would to still imply unity with Benedict. I know some trads who don’t accept Benedict do still go to the Motu and ER, but many of us do not want to join in a Mass that is said in union with him. In the Canon, it the earthly head of the Church is specifically mentioned, and if we don’t accept the person inserted, we stay away. Validity(if it is valid) is not the only thing necessary to licitly assist at Mass.
In short, canon 844 wouldn’t affect most of us, since we don’t recognise that canon law.
 
I believe this thread is directed more towards those who attend SSPX liturgies.

If it is directed towards those in the SSPV, etc., then I think Joe17’s objection is quite apt.
 
StMarina303ad said:
Code of Canon Law 844.2 reads: Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid. 844.3 explains that this is refering to the (“Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church”)

**My question is (again to those who attend the Traditional Catholic Churches not in union with Rome) why do you not attend one of the Eastern Orthodox Churches in your area since it would allow you personally (& family) to remain “in union” with the Roman Catholic Church by following the Code of Canon Law? **From what I understand from Traditional Catholics who are not in union with the Roman Catholic Church is that you do not attend Churches in union with Rome for “Moral” Reasons which according to CCL 844.2 is a valid reason for attending an Eastern Church.

Side note: Plus, if you really want to be a Traditionalist, you’d want to attend a Church which maintains the Original Liturgy as it was said in Rome prior to the 700’s when the Church of Rome switched the service from Greek to Latin. All of the Eastern Orthodox Churches continue to use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom which has been unchanged since the early 400’s & the Liturgy of St. Basil which as been unchanged since the 300’s - which was itself was shortened from St. James’ Divine Liturgy - *the very first Christian Liturgy *created by the Apostle St. James himself!

Can’t get any more Traditional than that!

Just Curious as to the thought process in this matter for those who find themselves faced with this situation: Being a Traditional Catholic not in union with the Pope of Rome.
Click to expand...
I do attend an Antiochian Orthodox Church in my area on a regular basis. Only ten minutes away. I do not attend the several local Catholic Churches, because they refuse to offer the EF Mass, and want nothing to do with the EF Mass. As well as anything to do with traditional Catholicism!. Not my fault!. Their loss. But I just can’t sit at home praying for the day to come when my local parishes decide to offer the EF Mass. So I decided to look East for spiritual guidance and truth. As well as proper worship!. Allot of these local Catholic parishes want to welcome Catholics back. But only on their terms. No EF Mass!! Or talk of a liturgical movement. I live in eastern Pennsylvania. I will not go back unless they are willing to make the effort to learn the EF Mass. My only source of traditional Catholicism is the internet!. And the more I learn about Orthodox worship and spirituality the less I want to go back.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top