A question of time

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Someone asked if we should pray for Satan, and in the response it was said that the fallen angels made a choice ( past tense ) for hell, that the angels in heaven made the choice for God ( past tense ) and they cannot now ( definitely present tense ) fall from heaven into hell.

I’ve been wondering, is it possible that our experience, our sense, of time as linear is false?
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?

Anyone know of any literature regarding this? Especially what does the church think about the nature of time?

Also, any thoughts of yours regarding it, including calling me batty.
 
Dear Batty. :o I’m about to confuse the daylights outta you.

God transcends time.

Seconds, minutes, hours, days. These are all man-made measurements of time. Just like inches, feet, and yards are measurements of distance. Humans created this to make our lives easier and so we have some sort of universal language to understand what each other is talking about.

God’s time is no doubt very different from ours. I believe that to God everything just “is”. There is no was or will be, there just is. I think this is why “patience is a virtue”, because time is just an illusion.

That being said. Not everything transcends time. Just God. Transcends doesn’t mean he “time travels”. He just is, has been, and always bill be all the time, everytime, regardless of our human containment of “time”.

Still with me? Angels made a decision. As soon as they did, God took that decision as past, present, future, can’t be changed have a nice time in heaven, or hell. As soon as Satan made the decision he was always in hell. :eek: .
 
God doesn’t exist in time, but we (and the angels) do. Time isn’t an illusion, but is a real created thing/condition. Anything that is created exists in time. Causality is real, and is the source of time. Afterall, the definition of time is “the measure of change”, and all change is brought about through causality.
 
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?
No, I can say, “Yesterday, this happened” or that “Tomorrow, I’m going to do that.” There is no concept of past or future in a timeless universe.

What evidence do you have to offer that supports your idea of time?
 
This idea is not original to me. I heard it somewhere, sometime, but now it often pre-occupies me, though I cannot remember when and where I heard it or read it.

I will start with the weakest example.

My family are Baptists, I came in contact with the Catholic church in 5th grade, through Joan of Arc, but for a very long time I just believed she was a nice - but insane - girl. It took a lot of history books, and a lot of personal history, to come around. Anyway, the point is I came late to any specific knowledge of Catholicism, which is to say particularly to a knowledge of Saint Dymphna.
Three years ago I was flipping through prayer cards and came apon a picture of Saint Dymphna. I was shocked, I was deeply disturbed, my jaw hit the floor. I had to leave the room and go outside and smoke half a pack of cigarettes.
Why?
It was not like I had just seen her for the first time. It seemed enstead like I had seen her every day of my life.
In East Tennessee redheads are quite common, but in North carolina where I spent the first 36 years of my life , red heads are quite rare. Anyway, no, she does not remind me of anyone I am aware of.
No portrait has ever had such an effect on me. It also seemed to have an interactive effect. Photographs and portraits can give the illusion of looking back at you. This was much more. Actually it wasn’t even a look, it was perhaps akin to what people describe feeling when they encounter a “soul mate”.

Anyway, I don’t believe in reincarnation, to the best of my recollection that day was the first time I ever saw her, but it is as if I have always known her, as if she has always been my friend.
How could these apparent opposites be true?

The night time sky : these suns are X - number of miles away. Light travels at X -mph.
Some of these suns we are looking at ceased to exist long ago.
So, we are LITERALLY LOOKING at the past?

I can watch a movie. The people in the movie are breathing, moving, smiling, feeling, speaking, etc. the movie was made so long ago that everyone appearing in the movie, and working behind the camera, is dead.
I can liscen to dead people on audio recordings.
I can read a dead mans thoughts in a book. Consider the diary of Anne Frank, it is so personal, it is as if she is talking directly to me. She died 25 years before I was born.
Ok, so these are records, what of it?
I just get the feeling, the strong feeling, that there is more tangibility to the past than in film, audio recordings, and paper.

God cannot be beaten, God knows everything, in simple terms, God cannot suffer a Pearl Harbor -type surprise.
Here comes John Calvin ; if God knows everything, then God already knows what choices we are going to make.
But Jesus and the Pope say we have free will, so by golly it must be so .
So HOW can there be BOTH?

God is EVERYWHERE AND AT THE SAME TIME.
HOW could that be?
God is both with the living and the dead.
What about non-human entities?
Is God with dinosaurs long dead, and dead suns, and also with viral mutations that have not yet occured and suns not yet born?
If so, How could that be?

I commonly speak casually to Saint Dymphna, I talk to her about many random things. Perhaps this is unusual, but perhaps several people world-wide do the same thing.
Let’s say hypothetically that I start talking to Dymphna in Tennessee, at the same time a person in Texas starts talking to her, and another in Delaware, and one in Portugal, and one in Germany, and so on, and we are all bringing different joys, griefs, and topics to her.
How does she make coherent sense out of all of us at the same time?
 
Someone asked if we should pray for Satan, and in the response it was said that the fallen angels made a choice ( past tense ) for hell, that the angels in heaven made the choice for God ( past tense ) and they cannot now ( definitely present tense ) fall from heaven into hell. .
The devil can’t be saved, so there is no point in praying for the devil. As a Catholic thats what i understand theologically speaking.
I’ve been wondering, is it possible that our experience, our sense, of time as linear is false?
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?.
This is just speculation on my part, so you do not have to accept this.

God is timeless, and God is existence. Therefore there can be know time or place in existence that isn’t eternally present to God. It seems to me logically impossible. I think, from a Gods eye veiw of things; you are already in heaven, if in fact thats where you are going to be. I think that from a Gods eye veiw of things, the Universe has always existed–beginning and end–as an eternal expression of Gods attributes; even though from our perspective in the 3rd dimension, there is a flow of time and a beginning. In fact, from Gods point of veiw, it is impossible for the universe to exist at one moment and then cease to exist at the next. The only way for the universe or multiverse to exist, is for the universe to follow logically from Gods being rather then “causally”. Causality is not involved, accept in time. The Universe extends neccesarily from Gods attributes “always”; as in, there has never been a time when the Universe hasn’t existed.

Does this answer your question?
 
I think all the replies I have gotten have been good. Funny thing though, they all seem to me , at least for the most part, to be compatible with my speculation.
Mostly.
Apparently.
 
I think all the replies I have gotten have been good. Funny thing though, they all seem to me , at least for the most part, to be compatible with my speculation.
Mostly.
Apparently.
Have you read my post?🙂
 
Someone asked if we should pray for Satan, and in the response it was said that the fallen angels made a choice ( past tense ) for hell, that the angels in heaven made the choice for God ( past tense ) and they cannot now ( definitely present tense ) fall from heaven into hell.

I’ve been wondering, is it possible that our experience, our sense, of time as linear is false?
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?

Anyone know of any literature regarding this? Especially what does the church think about the nature of time?

Also, any thoughts of yours regarding it, including calling me batty.
my opinion is that time as seen from a G-ds viewpoint all of time is instantaneous.

all things occur for him simultaneously, for us, as a matter of our limited processing power we understand time as a series of cause and effect.

G-d has infinite processing power and therefore needs not to sort in that way.

at least that is my current opinion
 
Nobody wants to comment on my posts.😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 :
Sorry I didn’t write yesturday. I have a problem with being much too emotional, so I tend to take a break of a day , or two , or a week, after I post on forums. Yes I read your post. Actually I have read it 5 or 6 times now.
 
I’ve been wondering, is it possible that our experience, our sense, of time as linear is false?
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?

Anyone know of any literature regarding this? Especially what does the church think about the nature of time?

Also, any thoughts of yours regarding it, including calling me batty.
CS Lewis in his book “Mere Christianity” explains this very well in the theology chapter(s). We live in linear time because of change. God does not change nor live in time as we do. For God all of human history is eternally NOW to God. So in a certain sense the past, present, and future are all the same to God - but not to us. Only God is God who does not change. That is not true for you and me.
 
Time is a scientific method humans developed to measure the passage of events. Precisely expressed: The second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom. Our “time” is derived from He who transcends time and space and transcends science as well.
 
Someone asked if we should pray for Satan, and in the response it was said that the fallen angels made a choice ( past tense ) for hell, that the angels in heaven made the choice for God ( past tense ) and they cannot now ( definitely present tense ) fall from heaven into hell.

I’ve been wondering, is it possible that our experience, our sense, of time as linear is false?
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?

Anyone know of any literature regarding this? Especially what does the church think about the nature of time?

Also, any thoughts of yours regarding it, including calling me batty.
Excellent question!

One book that comes to mind that addresses this and other questions: Mere Christianity by the late C.S. Lewis. Lewis was the author of the children’s Narnia Chronicles books, but he was also an thoughtful and articulate author of Christian books for adults.

In the book he explains how he was always puzzled about how God would possibly have the time to answer every prayer until the idea came to him that to God, all of time is like a timeline on the pages of an open book. He can see the beginning, middle and end of all time. Once more, God can, at any moment in time, reach out His hand and touch that timeline, entering time and interacting with us and our circumstances.

There is support for this in Isaiah (somewhere between the 40th and 49th chapters) where God is quoted as knowing the future with 100% accuracy, unlike the pagan gods. There is also evidence in Revelation, where St. John quotes Jesus as saying He is the beginning and the end of all time.

Now the question you have raised is an intriguing one: Do angels and demons have this same capacity to know the future because, as it were, they are already there with God? I do not know, but my guess is that if they are able to exist in what we call the future, God does not reveal all that will occur there to them but only what He wants them to know.

What do you think?
 
Someone asked if we should pray for Satan, and in the response it was said that the fallen angels made a choice ( past tense ) for hell, that the angels in heaven made the choice for God ( past tense ) and they cannot now ( definitely present tense ) fall from heaven into hell.

I’ve been wondering, is it possible that our experience, our sense, of time as linear is false?
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?

Anyone know of any literature regarding this? Especially what does the church think about the nature of time?

Also, any thoughts of yours regarding it, including calling me batty.
For us, if there is any change, there is time. If we did not change, time would not exist. Since God does not change, He does NOT exist in time. We change and therefore we do exist in time. Now what is so fascinating is to know that God is eternally NOW in all of history - past, present, and future. He is infinite, eternal … possesses and emcompasses all of OUR time
 
God is constrained neither by time nor space and the sheer magnitude of both makes no difference. Regardless of magnitude both are as infinitely small as God is infinitely… infinite. Words fail.

“I am who am.”
 
Is it possible that the past, the present, and the future are actually all the SAME time?
From the standpoint of eternity (i.e., from the stanpoint of God) that is exactly correct.
Past, present, and future, are all the same time.

Sequential time is the way that we possess our being. We possess our being not all at once, not as a totality, but only frame by frame, second by second.

It is rather like a movie. The projected movie seems to be a continuity in time, but it is really just a series of individual projected still photos, some 24 each second. The totality can be placed in a film container. Someone who could simultaneously view all frames at once would perceive the whole film in an instant.

Think of the projector lamp as one’s consciousness. That’s how we possess our being. We only illuminate into our consciousness one instant at a time. We won’t be able to fully possess the totality of our being until we can view all instants at once. That is eternity.

For us, there is past, present, future. For God, there is only NOW.
 
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