A rant...

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Armyvet007 said:
How exactly is a Catholic not a member of “that community”?
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I think it’s pretty arrogant to visit a parish at which you are not a registered member and believe you have a right to “fix” things. The Church gives us liturgical rules and guidelines that should be followed. These are not serious abuses. We do our best for the people we serve but following rules and guidelines is not the way to salvation. Christ is. If the way these people are praying is leading them to follow Christ, then angry rants are not warranted. Believing they should be fixed because you or I don’t like it is WRONG.
Yes, we are all Catholic and none of us are perfect Catholics. Let it go.
 
Anna_Claire said:
I think it’s pretty arrogant to visit a parish at which you are not a registered member and believe you have a right to “fix” things. The Church gives us liturgical rules and guidelines that should be followed. These are not serious abuses.
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Yet the Holy Father has given every Catholic the right to a proper liturgy. The liturgy does not belong to the priest or the parish, but the the whole Church. Now we may not like the music, the language of any number of things, but changes to the liturgy are legitimate sources for complaint, even from one who is passing through.
 
Tietjen said:
Make an appointment to speak with the Priest about your concerns. He deserves the opportunity to either explain or/and fix the situation. If that does not work…

“Dear Most Reverend Bishop ___________ …”
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Amen and Amen, Tietjen.
I feel for the OP here. I will pray for you and this priest as well. And the parish.
If after trying all of the above, nothing changes,
RUN. DO. NOT. WALK. TO. THE. NEAREST. PARISH. THAT IS NOT. LIKE. THE. PRESENT. ONE.
 
pnewton said:
Yet the Holy Father has given every Catholic the right to a proper liturgy. The liturgy does not belong to the priest or the parish, but the the whole Church. Now we may not like the music, the language of any number of things, but changes to the liturgy are legitimate sources for complaint, even from one who is passing through.
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pnewton, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Kathryn Ann:heaven:
 
As a liturgist I agree that we should do all we can to promote the liturgy that the Church has given us. There is so much meaning in doing what the Church wants us to do.
More important, the Church wants us to promote the Gospel and do what Christ wants us to do. Good liturgy means that people will understand what happens at mass and will follow Christ. That means, examine what happens when these parishioners leave. Who are they? Are they people who idolize their liturgy for it’s own sake or do they go out and emulate Christ? Do they Feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc.,…care for each other? Do they understand that we are to sacrifice ourselves for others? Recognizing Christ in the Eucharist means that we must recognize him in other ways after we leave the liturgy… sometimes in disturbing ways. Are these people following through? If so, leave them alone. If you can prove that they are not…report them to the bishop if doing so makes you happy. However, I would say that unless there is real abuse, whoever thinks it’s necessary to change things to what they believe is best and to what they prefer is guilty of the sin of idolatry.
 
Anna_Claire said:
However, I would say that unless there is real abuse, whoever thinks it’s necessary to change things to what they believe is best and to what they prefer is guilty of the sin of idolatry.
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If one is talking about preferences only, then are are correct in that it should not be addressed, although I do not see why you consider it idolatry. However, re-writing the liturgy is not question of preference.
 
Layp3rs0n said:
the piano is played during the reading while the Deacon reads dramtically. The music rises in volume every few lines before a dramatic pause by the Decon
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Does a chandelier fall in the middle of Mass too? Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Seriously, though, this sounds strange; however, other than the dramatics with the Gospel reading (which sounds irreverent to me), this doesn’t sound too bad. If the Eucharistic prayer was fine and followed proper protocol and the homily was fine too, I don’t see a cause for too much concern. I wouldn’t get too worried about, “In the name of the Father, the Creator…,” either.

I will say that the parishoners need to be properly educated on how to act reverently in church (i.e. no loud talking in the church…people are trying to pray, after all, and genuflect whenever walking in front of the tabernacle and altar). About a year ago, my church handed out pamphlets at Mass on the proper way to behave, dress, etc. For example, people used to clap after the homily at my parish. After handing out those pamphlets telling people that they should refrain from doing so, it stopped. Sometimes, you just have to give people the benefit of the doubt and understand that they just may have never been told that a given behavior is unacceptable.
 
Anna_Claire said:
…
More important, the Church wants us to promote the Gospel and do what Christ wants us to do. Good liturgy means that people will understand what happens at mass and will follow Christ. That means, examine what happens when these parishioners leave. Who are they? Are they people who idolize their liturgy for it’s own sake or do they go out and emulate Christ? Do they Feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc.,…care for each other? Do they understand that we are to sacrifice ourselves for others? Recognizing Christ in the Eucharist means that we must recognize him in other ways after we leave the liturgy… sometimes in disturbing ways. Are these people following through? If so, leave them alone.
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Anna Claire, I’m confused. What does whether they are “following through” with Christian acts have to do with whether or not they are conducting an appropriate, respectful liturgy, in accordance with the norms of the church? Yes, I agree that if they are “following through” that is a good thing as we all should be, but it doesn’t get them a pass on modifying the liturgy. The real questions should be, was the liturgy licit and, if not, was it intentional? If they were minor issues, which most of it sounds that it was, then it isn’t a big deal, If it was more serious, then it should be brought to someone’s attention. The priest or pastor if it was not intentional or the bishop if they are intentionally conducting an illicit liturgy.

I do agree that we should cut them some slack and recognize that when we visit other parishes, things may be a little different from what we are used to, but as someone pointed out, we, as Catholics, have a right to expect that we can walk into any Catholic church anywhere in the world and participate in a liturgy conducted within the norms of the church. That may look slightly different from parish to parish or from country to country, but should be fundamentally the same. Even though the Eastern churches may provide a significantly different liturgy, it still is within the the norms established by that particular bishop for his rite.
 
This is why when I travel, I always do research first and find out where a TLM can be found. 😃
 
A tabernacle must be made of metal and be either firmly attached or too heavy to move, but it is fairly common to find brass tabernacles set inside wooden housings. Many high altars from a hundred years ago had this. It is only an all-wooden tabernacle (or worse, a glass one) which would be unacceptable. Also, a sanctuary lamp is required, but while having a red one is a tradition, no color is specified in the GIRM. One church I visited had a purple one to match the colors of that part of the church.
 
if that is the case is satisfactory. And I withdraw my complaint about that.
 
Layp3rs0n said:
Okaaaaay… So about a month ago I attended a parish around the corner from my new house and boy was it a dousie (how do you spell dousie?). Now, I went to this church a few times several years ago and it was a bit uh, unorthodox. People leaving pews for the sign of peace and the “Saving Cup” in the Eucharistic prayer being plauralized to Saving Cups, that kind of thing. Since it had been several years I thought things may have gotten better. Boy oh boy was I wrong. So, I get there and sit in my up and people just will not shut up. Lots of talking. Loudly. The tabernacle is gold inside but has a wooden exterior. No red candle anywhere that I saw. Anyway, mass is about to begin and the head of the music ministry introduces herself and her band to the congregation. She continues, “We wecome you all.” Fine. “Would any of our visitors please stand to be recognized?” Clapping and roaming around to shake hands from the congregation. I don’t stand. I sigh. Ok I am here. Maybe that’s the worst of it. But noooooo. The mass begins and the Altar Servers enter carrying a cross with no Corpus. The priest begins, **lin the Name of the Father, the Creator, and of the Son, the Redeemer, and of the Holy Spirit, the Sanctifier. Amen" o_O;; **The first two reading go by without incident. Then the Gospel came. *Long sigh" the piano is played during the reading while the Deacon reads dramtically. The music rises in volume every few lines before a dramatic pause by the Decon and the congregation sings a refrain. By this point I am nearly banging my head on the pew in front of me. The holmily was fine and very well done. The Eucharistic prayer fine. The prater of the faithful ad a spanish response to music even though it was an english mass. When mass ended I do not recall genuflecting towards the Tabernacle by almost anyone. Most left speedily and while talking. There may be more but I cannot remember and now my head hurts from thinking about it.
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:eek:
 
Anna_Claire said:
I think it’s pretty arrogant to visit a parish at which you are not a registered member and believe you have a right to “fix” things. The Church gives us liturgical rules and guidelines that should be followed. These are not serious abuses. We do our best for the people we serve but following rules and guidelines is not the way to salvation. Christ is. If the way these people are praying is leading them to follow Christ, then angry rants are not warranted. Believing they should be fixed because you or I don’t like it is WRONG.
Yes, we are all Catholic and none of us are perfect Catholics. Let it go.
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and changing the "In the Name of The Father…etc okay? :confused:
 
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