A Seminal Question About Mary Ever Virgin

[dominosNbiscuts]

**I gained most of my understanding of the Catholic Church through attending a parochial school quite a while back. I believe we used the children’s version of what was called the ‘Baltimore Catechism’. I attended public school beyond sixth grade, and received instruction from Father Saturday mornings till I was confirmed.

Recently I became interested in learning more about the Virgin Mary, and I was surprised to learn that the phrase ‘ever virgin’ with which I am quite familiar isn’t just a ‘pious amelioration’, but rather a statement that the Church asserts as true: that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life.

Since then I have read quite a bit of material on the topic, including the well written apologetics found on this web site, as well as others. But I’m left with one lingering question.

I submitted this question to ‘Ask An Apologist’ four days ago, and I noticed that - rather than answer it - they deleted it! I really didn’t think that it was that frightening a question! Here is is:

Considering the nature of this claim - that Mary was always a virgin - together with the inherent privacy of this kind of information - virginity does not, after all, manifest itself through the presence of a scarlet ‘V’ on ones forehead - who besides God and Mary herself could in all good conscience make that claim, or attest to it’s veracity?

Thanks in advance for your help with this question.

Another of His little lambs,

DB

**

 

[MariaG]

Easy answer, the Holy Spirit who will guide us to all truth. And since Our Blessed Mother’s virginity is dogma, The Holy Spirit led the Church to this truth.

Other answers would include the Temple. It is said Mary was a consecrated virgin, a fairly common practice at that time. “Husbands” were found for them to be protectors.

 

[Tom]

dominosNbiscuts:

Considering the nature of this claim - that Mary was always a virgin - together with the inherent privacy of this kind of information - virginity does not, after all, manifest itself through the presence of a scarlet ‘V’ on ones forehead - who besides God and Mary herself could in all good conscience make that claim, or attest to it’s veracity?

I believe you’ve answered your own question. Mary obviously informed the Apostles of this. She was considered “ever virgin” from the end of the first century. There are writings (although few) which refer to her as such. There are also Biblical reasons to consider this true. Joseph accepted her into his house as his wife while under a vow of virginity. According to Numbers chap 30, it would have been impossible for him to “legally” have had sex with her even after the birth of Jesus.

 

[BayCityRickL]

I think the importance of Mary’s virginity, if anything, is that it fulfilled an old testament prophecy about the birth of the Messiah.

I, too, think the dogma of Mary’s perpetual virginity is puzzling. Let’s concede that she was a virgin throughout her life. With no disrespect intended, so what? ditto, with all respect, to the Immaculate Conception?

I sense that this reverence flows from emotion and love and perhaps remembrance and gratitude for one’s own mother. How much more should we revere Mary, our spiritual Mother.

Maybe that’s it, at an intellectual level. She became the Mother of God by grace, and she has become our spiritual mother, with no loss of virginity, by the same grace.

 

[mlchance]

BayCityRickL:

I, too, think the dogma of Mary’s perpetual virginity is puzzling.

No more puzzling that admitting that 2+2 = 4.

Facts are facts. We do not change them to non-facts by refusing to admit they are true.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Pug]

Tom,

Could you elaborate a bit about why it would have been “illegal”? I know only a little about vows in Numbers. Couldn’t Joseph have just said she couldn’t have the vow, once he heard about it, or are you saying that he accepted the vow and so he was legally bound by it?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

"Who besides God and Mary herself could in all good conscience make that claim, or attest to it’s veracity?

No one! It is only by God speaking through His Church that we know with absolute certainity this truth of the Faith.

 

[Fidelis]

Let the Pope explain it:

THE CHURCH PRESENTS MARY AS ‘EVER VIRGIN’
Pope John Paul II​

1. The Church has always professed her belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary. The most ancient texts, when referring to the conception of Jesus, call Mary simply “virgin”, inferring that they considered this quality a permanent fact with regard to her whole life.

The early Christians expressed this conviction of faith in the Greek term aeiparthenos— “ever virgin”—created to describe Mary’s person in a unique and effective manner, and to express in a single word the Church’s belief in her perpetual virginity. We find it used in the second symbol of faith composed by St Epiphanius in the year 374, in relation to the Incarnation: the Son of God “was incarnate, that is, he was generated in a perfect way by Mary, the ever blessed virgin, through the Holy Spirit” (Ancoratus, 119,5; DS 44).

The expression “ever virgin” was taken up by the Second Council of Constantinople (553), which affirms: the Word of God, “incarnate of the holy and glorious Mother of God and ever virgin Mary, was born of her” (DS 422). This doctrine is confirmed by two other Ecumenical Councils, the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) (DS 801) and the Second Council of Lyons (1274) (DS 852), and by the text of the definition of the dogma of the Assumption (1950) (DS 3903) in which Mary’s perpetual virginity is adopted as one of the reasons why she was taken up in body and soul to heavenly glory.

Mary is virgin before, during and after giving birth

1. In a brief formula, the Church traditionally presents Mary as “virgin before, during and after giving birth”, affirming, by indicating these three moments, that she never ceased to be a virgin.

Of the three, the affirmation of her virginity “before giving birth” is, undoubtedly, the most important, because it refers to Jesus’ conception and directly touches the very mystery of the Incarnation. From the beginning it has been constantly present in the Church’s belief.

Her virginity “during and after giving birth”, although implicit in the title virgin already attributed to Mary from the Church’s earliest days, became the object of deep doctrinal study since some began explicitly to cast doubts on it. Pope St Hormisdas explains that “the Son of God became Son of man, born in time in the manner of a man, opening his mother’s womb to birth [cf. Lk 2:23] and, through God’s power, not dissolving his mother’s virginity” (DS 368). This doctrine was confirmed by the Second Vatican Council, which states that the firstborn Son of Mary “did not diminish his Mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it” (Lumen gentium, n. 57). As regards her virginity after the birth, it must first of all be pointed out that there are no reasons for thinking that the will to remain a virgin, which Mary expressed at the moment of the Annunciation (cf. Lk 1:34) was then changed. Moreover, the immediate meaning of the words: “Woman, behold, your son!”, “Behold, your mother” (Jn 19:26), which Jesus addressed to Mary and to his favourite disciple from the Cross, imply that Mary had no other children.

See the whole talk here, including some good apologetics points:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2BVM31.HTM

 

[MariaG]

I also remembered this from earlier. There are some great threads comparing Our Blessed Mother with the Ark of the covenant. There is a lot of symbolism with the ark carrying the word of God, Mary carrying the word (Jn 1:1), look for one here forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4325
For me, I personally find this compelling:
The Ark, which carried the word of God had very rigid rules and it could not be touched by men. Poles had to be used to carry it. Mary carried the Word. No man could then touch her.

 

[Didi]

Also, since Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit, to have marital relations with a man would be adultery.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Who would know? Mary’s midwife and a woman named Salome, if we can believe chapters 19 and 20 in the Proevangelium of James. At least, they could testify to Mary’s virginity after the birth of Jesus. Here’s a link to the second century work: newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm

 

[John_19_59]

The first chapters of Luke’s Gospel were either invented or could only have come from Mary herself.

I think the author left a clue. “She pondered all these things in her heart”.

They are Mary’s very own ponderings of her heart.