A single embryo can be formed from two sets of egg and sperm

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I was watching a show tonight about chimeras

chimera - a mother becomes pregnant with non-identical twins that fuse together in the womb to make one person.

I had never heard of this before.

Some say something similar happens to cause hermaphrodites ( people who are born with both sexual characteristics).

This is a new idea too.

What does anyone here on the forum know about this?

What happens to one soul when the two fertilized eggs unite?

Is there concrete evidence showing two fertilized eggs uniting to become one person? Has this been photographed happening in the womb?
 
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contemplative:
…Is there concrete evidence showing two fertilized eggs uniting to become one person? Has this been photographed happening in the womb?
I don’t know that this has been documented photographically in human pregnancies in utero, as the vast majority of human conceptions and early development is not photographed in this manner. This phenomenon has been documented in laboratory animals, in cases in which this condition was artificially produced. In most such cases (except cases in which a single zygote or very early stage embryo completely separates to become a set of identical twins, which subsequently reunite into a single embryo), the united embryo fails to develop regularly and dies long before that state of development that might correspond to a human baby at nine months development. I do not know at what rate this phenomenon might occur naturally among human pregnancies, what percentage of such persons live to birth or longer, or what we might speculate about the souls of such persons.
 
Joseph Bilodeau:
I do not know at what rate this phenomenon might occur naturally among human pregnancies, what percentage of such persons live to birth or longer,
That was one question from a documented chimara. She wondered how many people are chimaras and don’t even know it.
or what we might speculate about the souls of such persons.
This is my burning question.
The network was Health and the show was called I am my own twin
I recorded it on my DVR and hope to watch it again tonight.
Some thoughts have been posted on the internet already…do a google search and see…unfortunately pro-choice advocates. 😦
 
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contemplative:
…That was one question from a documented chimara. She wondered how many people are chimaras and don’t even know it…
According to one reference I have been able to locate, New Scientist magazine (not a peer-reviewed journal) reported about 30 known human cases in 2003. I have not been able to locate the original source for this report.
 
I am wondering if it is possible for a woman to release two fused eggs from an ovary which are then fertilized. Scientist have duplicated and documented chimarism artificially in a laboratory. Who is to say the lab results imitate what is actually happening in the womb? No one has pictures of this actual event in the womb. I am guessing that maybe ovaries sometime release two fused eggs which are then fertilized by one sperm producing one embryo.
 
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contemplative:
I am wondering if it is possible for a woman to release two fused eggs from an ovary which are then fertilized. Scientist have duplicated and documented chimarism artificially in a laboratory. Who is to say the lab results imitate what is actually happening in the womb? No one has pictures of this actual event in the womb. I am guessing that maybe ovaries sometime release two fused eggs which are then fertilized by one sperm producing one embryo.
The situation you describe would not be possible, as every gamete (ovum or spermatozoon) is a haploid cell with 23 single chromosomes (in humans) rather than 23 chromosome pairs. The single chromosomes from one spermatozoon are sufficient to unite with the single chromosomes in one ovum only.

Unfertilized ova do not fuse with each other, although it may be possible for them to exist adjacient to each other. Primary oocytes (the cells that undergo meiosis to produce female gametes) do not produce multiple ova, but only one potentially fertile ovum and up to three infertile polar bodies, so an oocyte that failed to completely separate would not produce two or more fused ova.

The laboratory work I referred to earlier did not involve human embryos.
 
Joseph Bilodeau:
The situation you describe would not be possible, as every gamete (ovum or spermatozoon) is a haploid cell with 23 single chromosomes (in humans) rather than 23 chromosome pairs. The single chromosomes from one spermatozoon are sufficient to unite with the single chromosomes in one ovum only. If only one spermatazoon is needed to fertilize one ovum that would explain why there is genetic material for one father found in chimeras.

Unfertilized ova do not fuse with each other, although it may be possible for them to exist adjacient to each other. This we see occasionally in chicken eggs purchased from the grocery store…a double yolked egg? Primary oocytes (the cells that undergo meiosis to produce female gametes) do not produce multiple ova, but only one potentially fertile ovum and up to three infertile polar bodies, so an oocyte that failed to completely separate would not produce two or more fused ova.

The laboratory work I referred to earlier did not involve human embryos.
Fraternal twins are the result when two different ova are fertilized by two different spermatazoon. The experts on the TV show said that these two fertilized eggs can fuse together to produce a chimera. Isn’t that too much genetic material for one person?

This is also the ‘tv experts’ explanation for hermaphrodites (double sexed people). Some documented hermaphrodites actually have had split colored skin…two visibly colored skin tones.

The time point of fertilization of two spermatazoon and two ovum plus fusion could be exactly the same and no two individuals ever existed…only one . That is… naturally in the womb where no one has yet photographed this happening.
 
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contemplative:
Fraternal twins are the result when two different ova are fertilized by two different spermatazoon. The experts on the TV show said that these two fertilized eggs can fuse together to produce a chimera. Isn’t that too much genetic material for one person?..
It would be if every cell in the person had a double portion of genes, but that’s not what happens. What happens is that when the two zygotes or embryos fuse together, the descendent cells from one of the original embryos or zygotes (containing one complete set of genes) form into some body parts of the combined organism, while other body parts of the combined organism are descended from the other original zygote or embryo, thus contain a different set of genes. No individual cells in the organism have a double set of genes. It is not dissimilar to the case of a person who has received an organ transplant, the donated organ has the genetic makeup of the donor (who, unless he or she is the recipient’s identical twin has a different genetic makeup from the donor), while the recipient’s original organs retain their original genes.

BTW, we have been speaking here of organisms resulting from the fusion of two unique zygotes or embryos. While this may be the most common variant of this rare condition, organisms resulting from the fusion of three or more fused embryos or zygotes are not impossible.
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contemplative:
…This is also the ‘tv experts’ explanation for hermaphrodites (double sexed people). Some documented hermaphrodites actually have had split colored skin…two visibly colored skin tones…
This is possible, but hermaphroditism can occur for other reasons as well. Many cases of hermaphroditism do not result in double sexed organisms, but rather in organisms whose sexual organs have not properly differentiated into a male or female configuration, but into some intermediate state instead. This may be the result of hormonal imbalances in developing organisms which may not be formed from the fusion of more than one unique zygote or embryo.
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contemplative:
…The time point of fertilization of two spermatazoon and two ovum plus fusion could be exactly the same and no two individuals ever existed…only one . That is… naturally in the womb where no one has yet photographed this happening.
It would be extremely improbable to the point of being effectively impossible for three such low-probability events to occur at exactly the same time. Also, fusion at the zygote stage in humans would probably occur in a fallopian tube rather than the womb.
 
NPR offers this audio newstory DNA Tests Shed Light on ‘Hybrid Humans’

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1392149

The women described in the NPR audio story is the same woman featured in the Discovery Channel’s I am my own twin

You can watch I am my own twin in June
health.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=0&cpi=111185&gid=0

The question at the end of the NPR audio story is
“If one person is born with genes of two individuals then what makes an individual and individual? Certainly not genes.”

This question helps me answer my own orginal question.
What happens to one soul when the two fertilized eggs unite?

Do I dare to to try to answer?

I don’t believe our genetics alone make us individuals but rather the soul which God places in each human body. This happens at the conception of life regardless of the path it took to get there…single birth, identical twins, fraternal twins or chimeras. What is important is that we don’t degrade, prevent or prohibit formation when life is imminent or a possibility.

Immedialty I could see how prochoice advocates might try to use the conception and chemistry of chimerism to support their cause. This befuddled me at first because my mind didn’t fully grasp what was happening in a 60 minute show bookcased in advertisements. I see now that conception of a chimera is simply another way in which God allows a human to be formed.
 
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contemplative:
I see now that conception of a chimera is simply another way in which God allows a human to be formed.
Exactly!!

Humanity is defined by the presence of an Immortal, Rational Soul, NOT by genetics. All the genetics do is decribe how the body looks and functions. It does not describe WHO the person is, the Humanity of the person.

That is why Human value begins at conception, that is where the Person IS.

That is something that the pro-choicers don’t understand.
 
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contemplative:
What happens to one soul when the two fertilized eggs unite?
My theory - the twins begin life as two separate individuals with separate souls. When they fuse, one dies and goes to heaven, or limbo, wherever miscarried babies go - and the body is integrated into the other twins body as with an organ transplant. If I were to have heart, lung, and kidney transplants from the same person, for instance, that wouldn’t mean we shared a soul - the other person’s soul would be in the afterlife, though some of my body would contain that person’s DNA.
However, clearly conjoined twins would have two separate souls - so the question remains - for what degree of fusion can we assume there is only one remaining soul, one person? What about parasitic twins, where the second twin is only a head? Or what if only an extra arm remains of the second twin? Can a head be a person? An arm?
Very interesting question.
 
DNA isnt only your looks and physical self, it also has a lot to do with your personality and your traits. Then your upbringing is first equal to how u turn out. I dont see how god has anything to do with it
 
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