A Taylor Marshall question

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Crusader13 said:
You seem to equate authority with knowledge and accuracy .
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I equate the authority of the Magisterium with Truth. I do that because by the grace of God I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church being protected by the Holy Spirit. Now nobody is ever going to tell me that I can’t trust it anymore, but I want others who might read these pages and be dragged into the mire of fear, doubt and doom as the most significant mark of the faith… can know that that isn’t how a Catholic really is, despite the sins and flaws of mortal men, the Church IS in the safe hands of the Holy Spirit.
 
Aquinas11 said:
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RogueSemicolon:
I hadn’t found any mention of a dissertation except the one he wrote for his PhD in Philosophy, “Thomas Aquinas on Natural Law and the Twofold End of Humanity.” Is this the one you mean?
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Yes, the Twofold End is how we have a
(1) Natural end (to inquire/naturally ask about God, via philosophy) and
(2) a Supernatural end (to seek God in afterlife via Sacraments, etc).
The two are related but distinct. De Lubac said they’re the same, hence believed anything we do in this life fulfills our supernatural end. So going to yoga class or Pagan ceremony would do as much for me getting to heaven as going to Mass. Also reason people saying “reasonable hope all men be saved” = if everything everyone does moves them towards heaven , why wouldn’t everyone be saved? Essentially deletes concept of sin.
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I don’t believe for a second that “De Lubac said they’re the same, hence believed anything we do in this life fulfills our supernatural end. So going to yoga class or Pagan ceremony would do as much for me getting to heaven as going to Mass.”

Can you quote him?
 
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Crusader13 said:
I don’t think he doubts the Catechism as it is a collection of beliefs of the Church. He prefers the older Roman Catechism in fact he did a video on this very issue and why prefers the older one over the new.
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That’s like preferring old medicine to new medicine. Why would you want that?
 
Emeraldlady said:
“De Lubac said they’re the same, hence believed anything we do in this life fulfills our supernatural end. So going to yoga class or Pagan ceremony would do as much for me getting to heaven as going to Mass.”
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Show me where he claimed this? I don’t believe it. (BTW don’t redact my post)
 
Aquinas11 said:
Yes they believe man is always seeking God, thus doesn’t need to just go the Catholic route. Hence Bishop Barron saying to Ben Shapiro in interview that Christ is “the privileged way”, in direct contradiction to John 14:6.
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How do you explain ancient people worshipping gods? What were they seeking?
 
Emeraldlady said:
Well why are you taking issue with De Lubac saying that the spiritual search is the same inbuilt desire for everyone?
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what does “spiritual search” mean here? in awe of stars? wondering who made the World? Trying to get to Heaven after we die? Engaging in Sacraments?
 
Aquinas11 said:
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Emeraldlady:
Well why are you taking issue with De Lubac saying that the spiritual search is the same inbuilt desire for everyone?
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what does “spiritual search” mean here? in awe of stars? wondering who made the World? Trying to get to Heaven after we die? Engaging in Sacraments?
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Desiring communion (love), praising and thanksgiving with whoever made us and made the earth we live on.

Why do you take issue with De Lubac recognising this common search?
 
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Emeraldlady said:
Desiring communion (love), praising and thanksgiving with whoever made us and made the earth we live on.

Why do you take issue with De Lubac recognising this common search?
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because de Lubac equates that common search (the Natural end) with the Supernatural end of being in Heaven with God in afterlife.

Why do you take issue with Jesus in John 14: 6?
 
Emeraldlady said:
I equate the authority of the Magisterium with Truth. I do that because by the grace of God I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church being protected by the Holy Spirit.
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As do I. I’m just aware that not every member of the magisterium will uphold the truth of the faith. The ones that don’t should be questioned as to why they believe what they do. There’s nothing wrong with seeking clarity.

I think we tend to part ways because it sounds like you view every change since Vatican II as a positive. And those that disagree with these changes you denounce as being disobedient and not willing to accept the authority of the magisterium.

When in fact nobody has argued against the authority of the Pope or anybody else. My point of view is that in many ways the older teachings, practices, liturgy, traditions and prayers are better.

I’m not saying that the newer ones are invalid, I just believe there was a reverence to the older medicine that is lacking in the new.
 
Emeraldlady said:
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Crusader13:
I don’t think he doubts the Catechism as it is a collection of beliefs of the Church. He prefers the older Roman Catechism in fact he did a video on this very issue and why prefers the older one over the new.
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That’s like preferring old medicine to new medicine. Why would you want that?
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Not quite the same.

The Roman Catechism is the Catechism of the Council of Trent. Pope Benedict the XVI called it the most important catechism, so did my parish priest.

As a matter of fact my parish priest said it was the main source, guide and reference for all other catechisms and I have heard others say that also…

The Roman Catechism has for more than four centuries been the single most authoritative one-volume, carefully organized, easily readable, and clearly expressed synthesis of Roman Catholicism.– Fr. John A. Hardon SJ

New is not always better.

Our Catholic faith has a 2000 year history that has great foundations. The Catechism of Trent is one of them.
 
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Okay! Thank you for explaining this. I think as a cradle Catholic I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of not knowing about or desiring heaven because I have never NOT known about God. But I’m going to continue pondering all that has been shared on the thread!
 
Jen7 said:
Believe it or not my 2nd graders wanted to know what was going on with P-Mama. I didn’t say a lot because I didn’t want to scandalize them, but I also didn’t discount their questions at a
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awkward! The elephant in the room. I honestly don’t know how to answer that other than maybe to say that part of the job of being a Catholic is to find out as much about our faith as we can. It is a job that is never finished. Then we can decide for ourselves. Till then, since it is a hot button issue, they need to talk with their parents about it. If they don’t know THEY need to get busy.
 
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