A Utopian Community

[HagiaSophia]

Fr. Ron Rolheiser describes a “utopian” community of believers for “mature Christians”:

"…We need that today. Someone needs to found a religious community with no rules because, for its members, none would be needed. Everyone would be mature enough to live out a poverty, chastity and obedience that does not need to be externally prescribed and over-protected by symbols that set it apart. Attitudes and behavior would be shaped from inside and would emanate from a commitment to a community, a vision and a God that puts one under an obedience that is more demanding than any outside rule.

The community would be mixed, men and women together, but strong enough to affectively love each other, remain chaste and model friendship and family beyond sex and without denigrating sex. The community would be radically immersed in the world. Its members, sustained by prayer and community, would be free, like Jesus, of curfews and laws, to dine with everyone, saints and sinners alike, without sinning themselves. This community would give itself to the world, even as it resisted being of the world…"

the-tidings.com/2005/0610/rolheiser.htm

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

:ehh: Does this sound a wee bit strange to you?:yawn:

 

[HagiaSophia]

:ehh: Does this sound a wee bit strange to you?:yawn:

Eyes are still rolling and coming from him — I must say - strange indeed. He speaks as if there is no fallen human nature.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

HagiaSophia:

Eyes are still rolling and coming from him — I must say - strange indeed. He speaks as if there is no fallen human nature.

Sounds like the New Age mess to me

 

[KCT]

I guess Utopia would be a world w/o original sin! —KCT

 

[puzzleannie]

it has been tried, that is why monastic orders developed rules. read the rule of St Benedict, it is full of common sense because it is based on what actually happens when people try to live together without rules. the guy is an idiot without much experience of community life.

 

[Les_Richardson]

This is like the discussion of politics where it can be said that capitalism, communism, dictatorship, monarchy or any other system would work well for everyone, if everyone was perfect. In fact, if we were all perfect, there would be no laws because there would be no violators. And, of course, if we were perfect, Christ would not have needed to die.

Utopia, indeed. He’s talking about the Garden of Eden before the Fall.

 

[cecelia]

Let’s redefine mature Christians: they are those who manifest poverty of spirit, humility, and the courageousness to live out all the tenents of the Church, without fear, without doubt, without reluctance, but with joy and fortitude. Those are the mature Christians.Pope Benedict already told us that we need a mature Christianity, so we need to be mature Christians, ready to give witness to the faith at whatever cost. Father Rolheiser’s “mature” Christianity is naive,based on the notion that man left to his own devices can construct an earthly Utopia. It’s been tried, and look at the results. We cannot do it on our own. We cannot do it without God. If Father Rolheiser really examines what really transpires in the attempt to construct an earthly Utopia he need only look at Animal Farm, in which the animals made such an attempt but which ended up sadly with the death of Boxer and the total oppression of the animals and their realizing that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. That Utopian vision that he envisions will quickly degenerate into a Dystopian nightmare. His best bet than, working to bring forth the truths of the Faith. That takes maturity, that takes guts. Father Rolheiser’s vision on the other hand keeps one immature and delusional.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Some friends used to joke about starting a commune (for social maladroits ). As we were talking about what kinds of things we wanted to do it be came apparent that we needed rules. Our little commune started to look a whole lot different rather quickly.

Even we figured out we needed some guidelines to keep order.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

From the article:

It’s no accident that our church communities sometimes look fearful, gray, sexless and uninviting in comparison to the freedom, color, eros and energy that’s manifest in the world. We remain religious, but often at the cost of being unhealthily fearful, timid, frigid and depressed.

Fearful? The only time I’ve seen anyone fearful in church is a child or teenager prodded by parents to go stand around the altar when invited.

Gray? Well, yes, especially more modern churches lacking iconography and the rest of the smells and bells . Oh, right it shouldn’t

need to be externally prescribed and over-protected by** symbols** that set it apart.

Sexless? Um…okay what does non-sexless look like exactly? In comparison? Really. I want to know.

I think Fr. Ron is projecting.