A Vaild Baptism?

[KBrad]

My wife is the Baptism coordinator in our parish.
She often must deal with uncatechised people and tries her best to explain the Church requirements of parents and godparents in the baptism of infants. There have been times when, after the fact, she has discovered that neither of the godparents met the requirements spelled out in canon law. The parents and godparents simply lied. Consequently some infants were baptised with godparents who were not even Catholic.

The question is: Is the Baptism of those infants valid? Is it licid?

We know that “defect in form” is a valid reason for the declaration of nulity for marriage. Is there a similar situation for baptism? The reason for this question is that my wife has been approached by a mother who is now concerned about her child’s baptism?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I could comment (puzzleannie), but I think the godparents are not necessary- ***which your wife could easily ask the deacon or priest for whom she works. ***The necessary part of baptism is pouring water, intention, and the words, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Even Protestant baptisms of converts prior to conversion that contain those elements are valid. Converts from other denominations who use trinitarian baptism would probably not have Catholic godparents; so logic says valid baptism for these babies, but a sin on the parents of these children for lying to the priest to please the family and use somebody who does not fit the role a godparent should play. Only their consciences and a priest can determine just what went on.

 

[tracydaisy]

The baptism is valid.
But, I would check with a priest to be sure?

In cases of an emergency, there doesn’t have to be any godparents.

Illicit- not lawful. I don’t know if it’s considered illicit. I wouldn’t think so.

I beleive it is wrong, even sinful to lie to the Church and say that someone is Catholic when they are not.

 

[Proud2BePapist]

Yes, a baptisim would have a requirement of form, like a marriage, however the form here is much less complicated as I will explain below.

In any sacrament there are three things that effect its VALIDITY:

Form: In the case of baptism this would be. “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

Matter: In this case the matter is water, so a baptism using milk would be illicit.

Intention: one must intend what the Church intends by baptism.

A sponsor is not required for the sacrament to be valid. But, a sponsor is required by law to be licit. However, if your wife has done all she can, she cannot be held culpable when the couples lie. I would suggest that if the sponsor are not known to her that she ask for a letter from thier parish stating that the sponsor-to-be is a practicing catholic, This is a common practice in many areas.

Casey The Seminarian

 

[puzzleannie]

your diocese has particular law governing Baptism and the other sacraments, and anyone in charge of preparing families must be familiar with this law. It is the role of the pastor to interview the families and godparents. If he is delegating this responsibility to someone else, that person has to know enough to refer problems to the pastor for his decision. If parents and godparents are required to attend prebaptismal classes, the status of the sponsor should have been resolved at that time. In this diocese, we are no longer allowed to require proof of marriage for godparents, we must take their word for it. If they lie, no, it does not invalidate the sacrament.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My wife is the Baptism coordinator in our parish.
She often must deal with uncatechised people and tries her best to explain the Church requirements of parents and godparents in the baptism of infants. There have been times when, after the fact, she has discovered that neither of the godparents met the requirements spelled out in canon law. The parents and godparents simply lied. Consequently some infants were baptised with godparents who were not even Catholic.

The question is: Is the Baptism of those infants valid? Is it licid?

We know that “defect in form” is a valid reason for the declaration of nulity for marriage. Is there a similar situation for baptism? The reason for this question is that my wife has been approached by a mother who is now concerned about her child’s baptism?

I think your pastor needs to institute more investigation into who the Godparents are, where they attend Mass. Possibly a letter for their pastor is in order.

The Baptisms where the Godparents were not qualified would be valid but not licit. An example of defect of Form in Baptism would be “I Baptize you in the Creator, the Incarnation and the breath of God” That would make the Baptism invalid.

 

[Proud2BePapist]

Yes, a baptisim would have a requirement of form, like a marriage, however the form here is much less complicated as I will explain below.

In any sacrament there are three things that effect its VALIDITY:

Form: In the case of baptism this would be. “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

Matter: In this case the matter is water, so a baptism using milk would be illicit.

Intention: one must intend what the Church intends by baptism.

A sponsor is not required for the sacrament to be valid. But, a sponsor is required by law to be licit. However, if your wife has done all she can, she cannot be held culpable when the couples lie. I would suggest that if the sponsor are not known to her that she ask for a letter from thier parish stating that the sponsor-to-be is a practicing catholic, This is a common practice in many areas.

Casey The Seminarian

Correction, using milk would INVALIDATE the baptism. Thats what happen whean you post at 2 in the morning.