Abortion, Capital Punishment, & Just War

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mcteague said:
I am not sure what the Church’s exact view of capital punishment is.
However I still want to ask the question.
Is the position of the Church on these three areas relating to the value of human life morally and logically consistent?
One would think that to be consistent with the abortion view you would have to completely oppose war and capital punishment. That does not seem to be the case. How do you explain this inconsistency?
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The teachings are completely consistent. The consistence is as such; only in the condition of imminent danger can one consider killing a human.
mcteague said:
That all sound very nice on paper, but things don’t seem quite so clear in the real world.
I believe the Church prohibits abortion under all circumstances.
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not quite accurate, it cannot be the intent, but can occur as a side affect
We know that innocent people are and have been executed…
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not using catholic standards. Those errors in prudential judgment are due to abuses in civil systems
I am not an expert in the history of how and when the just war doctrine has been applied. However knowing what I do about human nature, and history in general, it seems unlikely that the doctrine has never been applied in questionable circumstances. It is understandable the acts done in the instinct of immediate self preservation are viewed differently. But the application of that caveat in this broader area might not bare careful scrutiny.
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Texas_Roofer said:
The teachings are completely consistent. The consistence is as such; only in the condition of imminent danger can one consider killing a human.
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Not exactly. The Church has been quite specific about when human life may be taken:

*“It is lawful to kill when fighting in a just war; when carrying out by order of the Supreme Authority a sentence of death in punishment of a crime; and, finally, in cases of necessary and lawful defense of one’s own life against an unjust aggressor.” *
(Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, 1905)

Ender
 
Ender said:
Not exactly. The Church has been quite specific about when human life may be taken:

*“It is lawful to kill when fighting in a just war; when carrying out by order of the Supreme Authority a sentence of death in punishment of a crime; and, finally, in cases of necessary and lawful defense of one’s own life against an unjust aggressor.” *
(Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, 1905)

Ender
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you didn’t list an exception, all those require imminent danger to exist
 
Ender said:
Not exactly. The Church has been quite specific about when human life may be taken:

*“It is lawful to kill when fighting in a just war; when carrying out by order of the Supreme Authority a sentence of death in punishment of a crime; and, finally, in cases of necessary and lawful defense of one’s own life against an unjust aggressor.” *
(Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, 1905)
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Oh great. How are we supposed to know what a supreme authority is?
 
copperblade said:
Oh great. How are we supposed to know what a supreme authority is?
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I’ll answer this question

Abortion is always wrong…Death Penalty shouldn’t be used anymore because of our advanced prison systems…

Just War: ewtn.com/expert/answers/just_war.htm

In the end we are ALL brothers and sisters united in Christ…he is in ALL of us; therefore common sense should be able to distinguish that abortion and death penalty are wrong. God Bless!
 
Texas_Roofer said:
you didn’t list an exception, all those require imminent danger to exist
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I didn’t list an exception because Pius X didn’t list one … because the exception you mention doesn’t exist.
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copperblade:
Oh great. How are we supposed to know what a supreme authority is?
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What is meant here is the proper authority of the State. It is the State alone that has the authority to punish crimes in general and to apply the death penalty in particular.
hxcatholic413:
Abortion is always wrong…Death Penalty shouldn’t be used anymore because of our advanced prison systems…
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The validity of any punishment, including the death penalty, is determined by the severity of the crime committed, not by the quality of the prison system. Thus we are told that retribution is the primary objective of punishment; it is justice, not protection, that must be secured.

Ender
 
I am against abortion for any reason and yet our government takes my money and allows it. I have ask many Priest and Nuns for their opinions and I get many different answers. Doesn’t my Church speak as one? I get so confused. Is there any correct answer?
 
Capital Punishment CAN BE justified today. Take a look at the Tacoma cop murders a little over a year ago. 4 of them gunned down at a coffee shop. And who gunned them down? A sadistic man who was on parole (granted by teh “wonderful” Mike huckabee!

If the sadistic man had been put to death, there would be 4 lives spared. Many criminals are not capable of being reformed. ie…Charles Manson.
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
I’ll answer this question

Abortion is always wrong…Death Penalty shouldn’t be used anymore because of our advanced prison systems…

Just War: ewtn.com/expert/answers/just_war.htm

In the end we are ALL brothers and sisters united in Christ…he is in ALL of us; therefore common sense should be able to distinguish that abortion and death penalty are wrong. God Bless!
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ADVANCED PRISON SYSTEMS??? Try FAULTY prison systems that care very little about survivors of crimes. The prisons of today promote the PRISONER!!

Watch lock up sometime!
 
Mark77 said:
**From the Catechism on “Just War” or Legitimate Defense;

"2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:**
  • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good. (CCC 2309)"
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… there must be serious prospects of success…

I find that interesting. Does this imply that if the aggressor state is more powerful, then that it should not be resisted? The weaker state should not try to defend itself?
 
Chrismacmax said:
ADVANCED PRISON SYSTEMS??? Try FAULTY prison systems that care very little about survivors of crimes. The prisons of today promote the PRISONER!!

Watch lock up sometime!
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well prisons are means of rehabilitation…and television shows are far from the truth although they are interesting to watch
 
oh and so many prisoners are rehabilitated. That is why there is SO FEW re-offenders!
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
well prisons are means of rehabilitation
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Rehabilitation is a valid objective but the primary objective is retribution - justice. A punishment that is just but does not rehabilitate the criminal is acceptable; a punishment that achieves rehabilitation but is unjust is not.

Ender
 
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