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Grace_Angel
Guest
OK then there is nothing to talk about is there. we can just let “the entire abortion problem” continue for want of trying.
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K
Kaninchen
Guest
So, the Jewish position on the life of the mother is responsible for the entire abortion problem and until we all convert to Catholicism, there is no progress to be made anywhere on the abortion issue?OK then there is nothing to talk about is there. we can just let “the entire abortion problem” continue for want of trying.
It really is ‘all or nothing’?
G
Grace_Angel
Guest
I dont recall suggesting anyone change to any religion or particularly blaming any religion but if the thoughts are shared on this thread are real and not for provocation then it is this type of thinking that has led to the abortion catastrophe we have today.So, the Jewish position on the life of the mother is responsible for the entire abortion problem and until we all convert to Catholicism, there is no progress to be made anywhere on the abortion issue?
It really is ‘all or nothing’?
We are all to blame for permitting it to happen and for listening to strident and false voices.
Especailly those which would say that an infant in the womb is not human or has more value than another.
So pleaase dont put words in my mouth
C
chosen_people
Guest
Welcome to Israel and I hope you are enjoying your stay.I am in Israel studying obstetrics. It was recommended that I go to Ireland, but I wanted to spend some time in this part of the world.
They decide who gets an abortion here by committee. There are specific standards to be applied, but in practice it is a rubber stamps of approval. The rejection rate is almost exactly 1% of the 20,000 or so annual requests.
I am told that there are sections of the Torah which liken the killing of a fetus in the womb to murder, but also a section which likens a fetus in the first 40 days to water, but that the fetus is considered viable at the start of the second trimester.
As in the US, the conservative religious folks here oppose abortion, and the more liberal see it as a civil liberies, or “choice” issue.
It is necessary to differentiate between Jewish law and the laws of the Jewish state of Israel. Israel is a democracy and not a theocracy and laws passed by the Knesset are not limited to their compatibility to Jewish law.
From a Jewish law stand point abortions are not permitted except in certain exceptional circumstances. I am including a link which gives a good and concise overview of the Jewish perspective: aish.com/ci/sam/48954946.html
If you have any questions regarding either the Jewish legal perspective or the Israeli law perspective,
As to the points you raised in your post. While I have no knowledge as to the statistical approval rate of the committee, I think it should be taken into account that the people referred to the committee have undergone initial screening. For example, in all cases where the reason for the abortion is because of danger to the health of the mother, the referral is based on documented medical opinion. It should therefore be of no surprise, that in such cases, the committee would give its approval.
As to your question regarding the status of the fetus and the question of murder to anyone intentionally harming the fetus and causing a miscarriage, you will find the answer in the link I have provided.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
Well, it seemed to me that being provocative was your purpose, if I was incorrect, then I’m sorry.I dont recall suggesting anyone change to any religion or particularly blaming any religion but if the thoughts are shared on this thread are real and not for provocation then it is this type of thinking that has led to the abortion catastrophe we have today.
We are all to blame for permitting it to happen and for listening to strident and false voices.
Especailly those which would say that an infant in the womb is not human or has more value than another.
So pleaase dont put words in my mouth
G
Grace_Angel
Guest
It was incorrect. I defend the life of the infant in the womb.Well, it seemed to me that being provocative was your purpose, if I was incorrect, then I’m sorry.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
We all have to be careful of the impression our enthusiasms may inadvertently cause.It was incorrect. I defend the life of the infant in the womb.
G
Grace_Angel
Guest
My enthusiasm is for the life of the infant in womb. I have no other aspirations than to defend this life. and I dont think this conversation needs to go on defending.We all have to be careful of the impression our enthusiasms may inadvertently cause.
F
Flavius_Aetius
Guest
What is that suppose to mean? Should Grace Angel’s position which is in line with Catholic belief be settled down and not be talked about solely because it is not in line with Secular and from what is seen here Orthodox Jewish belief on the importance (or lack of importance) of an unborn child?We all have to be careful of the impression our enthusiasms may inadvertently cause.
I’m backing Grace Angel, I believe when religious organizations sanction abortion it is only another aid for the secular world to continue to allow the practice to occur as widespread as it is now.
“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.”
This is the case for the pro-life movement, this is why being pro-life is essentially part of a counter-culture. If all the world religious stood together on this topic perhaps the secular world wouldn’t have turned abortion into a million dollar enterprise.
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Grace_Angel
Guest
thank you my belief also.What is that suppose to mean? Should Grace Angel’s position which is in line with Catholic belief be settled down and not be talked about solely because it is not in line with Secular and from what is seen here Orthodox Jewish belief on the importance (or lack of importance) of an unborn child?
I’m backing Grace Angel, I believe when religious organizations sanction abortion it is only another aid for the secular world to continue to allow the practice to occur as widespread as it is now.
“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.”
This is the case for the pro-life movement, this is why being pro-life is essentially part of a counter-culture. If all the world religious stood together on this topic perhaps the secular world wouldn’t have turned abortion into a million dollar enterprise.
“Life” is solely God’s perogative and when we compromise then the slippery slope is begun.
Nite all its bbeen good discussing this most important of all issues in our day.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
Oh, everybody is free to express their enthusiasm as much as they wish, obviously. If, on the other hand, they want to talk ‘to’ (rather than just ‘at’) people who don’t share their position, then it’s usually as well to take into account that some approaches are likely to be more productive than others.What is that suppose to mean? Should Grace Angel’s position which is in line with Catholic belief be settled down and not be talked about solely because it is not in line with Secular and from what is seen here Orthodox Jewish belief on the importance (or lack of importance) of an unborn child?
G
Grace_Angel
Guest
Kaninchen I dont have a “roar of the rabbit” as far as pro life and life of in utero infants is concerned my roar is female lion’s roar.Oh, everybody is free to express their enthusiasm as much as they wish, obviously. If, on the other hand, they want to talk ‘to’ (rather than just ‘at’) people who don’t share their position, then it’s usually as well to take into account that some approaches are likely to be more productive than others.
S
silentstar
Guest
Is it really true that it is now official Catholic teaching that abortion is never permitted even when the life of the mother is at stake? b/c I am 43 and was raised devout and pro-life speakers always made an exception for the life of the mother, when they made it clear they made no other exceptions, including rape or anything else. Can someone cite a document?
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Grace_Angel
Guest
Silentstar I dont believe that the “life of mother” is today in any danger because of pregnancy, today the life of the infant is most in danger. Read the story of Bld or is it St Gianna Molla and see the value she placed on the life of her infant. and in my own life my best friend died because she would not terminate her pregnancy so that cancer treatment could begin. Catherine died but her little man has grown into a big young man is is loved by his whole family. This was sixteen year ago.Is it really true that it is now official Catholic teaching that abortion is never permitted even when the life of the mother is at stake? b/c I am 43 and was raised devout and pro-life speakers always made an exception for the life of the mother, when they made it clear they made no other exceptions, including rape or anything else. Can someone cite a document?
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