Abortion...

[tomch]

I was praying the Rosary this morning on my way to work this morning, and a thought struck me as I thought of the Annunciation and the Visitation.

We hear all kinds of reasons today for allowing abortions - poverty, bad timing, wanting to finish school first, career conflicts, too young.

Now think about Mary’s situation. It wasn’t exactly an ideal time for her to have the baby Jesus! She was unmarried, in poverty, very young, probably not well educated, and her pregnancy was probably considered a scandal. She would have been a prime candidate for “Planned Parenthood.” Yet she said “Yes” and submitted herself to God’s will.

Anyway, aren’t you glad that she didn’t think only of herself? Aren’t you glad that she never would have even thought of having an abortion, no matter what her situation was?! Aren’t you glad that she didn’t practice “birth control?!”

 

[wjp984]

You are correct in saying Mary could have said no. However, it was a planned pregnancy and Mary knew what was going to happen so the situation is different. There was the potential for scandal only because she was going to be married to Joseph. However, once he agreed to take on his roll as the foster father of Jesus then the situation certainly would be very stable and not like the ones for the unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

I was praying the Rosary this morning on my way to work this morning, and a thought struck me as I thought of the Annunciation and the Visitation.

We hear all kinds of reasons today for allowing abortions - poverty, bad timing, wanting to finish school first, career conflicts, too young.

Now think about Mary’s situation. It wasn’t exactly an ideal time for her to have the baby Jesus! She was unmarried, in poverty, very young, probably not well educated, and her pregnancy was probably considered a scandal. She would have been a prime candidate for “Planned Parenthood.” Yet she said “Yes” and submitted herself to God’s will.

Anyway, aren’t you glad that she didn’t think only of herself? Aren’t you glad that she never would have even thought of having an abortion, no matter what her situation was?! Aren’t you glad that she didn’t practice “birth control?!”

Yup. That is a good point, but don’t think it’s all that original. I’ve had that thought myself.

 

[teachccd]

There simply is no good reason for abortion. Period.

 

[Kristopher]

I doubt, that Mary was illiterate: her family members were all very familiar with the priesthood, Jesus was a descendant of King David; her sister’s husband was a priest of some sort–granted, much of Judaic tradition was handed down orally, but by this point: the Septuagint had been extant for over 300 yrs. Given the social standing of her, her family, etc.; it would seem a bit strange, that she and any other of her female family members would have been kept illiterate.

While I haven’t ever agreed with abortion, it does seem Gandhi had an excellent point: poverty is the gravest violence against humanity–if there is any truth at all to the quote of the character, by Ben Kingsley, in the movie Gandhi, back in the 1980’s.

It is a real challenge.

Murder, no doubt, seems a greater horror than poverty: people tend to be grateful for their life, no matter how depraived.

It is nice, when praying the Pro-Life Rosary, to reflect on the various mysteries, and their relevance to abortion, etc.

Abortion is such an ugly procedure; whether it is drug induced; surgically induced; or inflicted after birth, to some extent, because it is not only legal, but also it is such an epitome of feminists, rights belonging to them, and the authority ascribed to them as a consequence of it being their decision from a legal standpoint.

Historically, it has a very ugly standing in the US. Margaret Sanger found a point or two, that it was granted to families of wealth, to protect their “reputation”. It’s a complicated, ugly history, with guilt on many sides of the fence, and it is demonstrative of a major lack of leadership throughout Christianity, both Protestant, and Catholic–given any amount of truth at all to statistics, that it is predominantly those who hold to a religion, or claim one, that procure an abortion.

Had abortion been found unacceptable even in those situations, that result from rape, or incest, it would have been more difficult–I think–for abortion to have been found acceptable.

It is amazing, that Jesus escaped with parents, the slaughter of infants, by Herod. He escaped death numerous times as an adult. He did end-up murdered in my opinion.

 

[gmags2003]

When God tells you to do something, you don’t say no…right?

 

[hawkeye]

Now think about Mary’s situation. It wasn’t exactly an ideal time for her to have the baby Jesus! She was unmarried, in poverty, very young, probably not well educated, and her pregnancy was probably considered a scandal.

I brought this point up in the past and was shot down for it.

The other person said well ,"she had the support of the family, they moved around in caravans. "

Oh yeah ! so where was the family when they made the arduous journey to Bethlehem when they couldn’t get a decent place for the babe to be born ? "

 

[wjp984]

She had the support of Joseph. While I am against abortion I just think there are too many flaws in this argument.

 

[elts1956]

You are correct in saying Mary could have said no. However, it was a planned pregnancy and Mary knew what was going to happen so the situation is different. There was the potential for scandal only because she was going to be married to Joseph. However, once he agreed to take on his roll as the foster father of Jesus then the situation certainly would be very stable and not like the ones for the unplanned pregnancies.

A planned pregnancy? You have got to be kidding. So Mary knew the Angel of God was going to appear and say God had plans for her to be the Mother of His Son? And Mary was not surprised to see this being talking to her and telling her what God wanted from her? And she “knew” what was going to happen, that her heart would be pierced by a sword, that sword being her Son hanging on a cross like a common criminal? If she had “known” what was going to happen she could have saved herself some heartache by saying no. Did the angel mention Joseph would take care of her? Scripture doesn’t mention him in this respect. Mary was a teenager. She was as lost and confused as many women who have unplanned pregnancies are today. The big difference between Mary and many women experiencing now having a baby not planned for is that she trusted God to take care of any difficulties she might experience. And He did.

Mary didn’t have a problem because of her pregnancy in relation to her betrothal to Joseph. I would think she had several, the main one being Joseph himself who was “greatly troubled” and thought of “putting her aside” rather than telling everyone her circumstances and seeing her stoned to death. Only another appearance by an angel, this time to Joseph, saved Mary from death.

So please do not say that circumstances are different today than they were in the time of Mary…Not many human circumstances in general have changed now or at any time in history. But then I will have to admit that one thing has changed, That is our lack of Faith in God and His care for us.

 

[elts1956]

You are correct in saying Mary could have said no. However, it was a planned pregnancy and Mary knew what was going to happen so the situation is different. There was the potential for scandal only because she was going to be married to Joseph. However, once he agreed to take on his roll as the foster father of Jesus then the situation certainly would be very stable and not like the ones for the unplanned pregnancies.

She had the support of Joseph. While I am against abortion I just think there are too many flaws in this argument.

Please give examples of these flaws. Thanks.

 

[Monicathree]

Mary was betrothed to Joseph which in ancient Jewish culture, was actually married, they couple just waited, I think like a year to move in and start their life that way. So, technically, she wasn’t “unwed”. But, I totally understand the sentiment of what you are saying and have used the analogy when counseling abortion minded ladies…
good for you for praying the rosary and even pondering about these things. If only more people contemplated the truth of abortion…

 

[Jimmy_B]

I was praying the Rosary this morning on my way to work this morning, and a thought struck me as I thought of the Annunciation and the Visitation.

We hear all kinds of reasons today for allowing abortions - poverty, bad timing, wanting to finish school first, career conflicts, too young.

Now think about Mary’s situation. It wasn’t exactly an ideal time for her to have the baby Jesus! She was unmarried, in poverty, very young, probably not well educated, and her pregnancy was probably considered a scandal. She would have been a prime candidate for “Planned Parenthood.” Yet she said “Yes” and submitted herself to God’s will.

Anyway, aren’t you glad that she didn’t think only of herself? Aren’t you glad that she never would have even thought of having an abortion, no matter what her situation was?! Aren’t you glad that she didn’t practice “birth control?!”

ABORTION IS THE LEGAL MURDER/GENOCIDE OF INNOCENT BABIES!

 

[wjp984]

Once again, I want to write this disclaimer that I am strongly against abortion before I write this. I just like being right even more so therefore I need to argue my point on why this argument is flawed.

1. An angel appeared to Mary and told her the situation. How many times has an angel appeared to a person going to have an abortion? It is not the same situation.
2. It was a planned pregnancy as God planned it. The angel told Mary about the situation and if Mary would have said no then God would have chosen someone else to be the Mother of God. Mary did not have to be the Mother of God and therefore it was a planned pregnancy as she knew what was going to happen since the angel told her.
3. Mary had a supportive family and a husband who could support her, Joseph. Joseph agreed to be the foster father of Jesus. In the cases of abortion today most of the time the father is not involved with the situation or even enourages the abortion and rarely are they married.

So while this is a great analogy and a wonderful topic to pray upon I just worry that the argument will not fly past people who analyze the situation in depth rather than take your word for it. I just tore the situation apart and trust me, many people are capable of doing this including those who will have abortions so I am preparing you for what their responses will be.

 

[fix]

Now think about Mary’s situation. It wasn’t exactly an ideal time for her to have the baby Jesus! She was unmarried,

I just want to mention she was married.

Mary was “betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David.” The nature of this “marriage” is explained indirectly when Mary, after hearing what the messenger says about the birth of the child, asks, “How can this be, since I do not know man?” (Lk 1:34) The angel responds: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God” (Lk 1:35). Although Mary is already “wedded” to Joseph, she will remain a virgin, because the child conceived in her at the Annunciation was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...jp-ii_exh_15081989_redemptoris-custos_en.html
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
REDEMPTORIS CUSTOS

 

[elts1956]

Once again, I want to write this disclaimer that I am strongly against abortion before I write this. I just like being right even more so therefore I need to argue my point on why this argument is flawed.

1. An angel appeared to Mary and told her the situation. How many times has an angel appeared to a person going to have an abortion? It is not the same situation.
2. It was a planned pregnancy as God planned it. The angel told Mary about the situation and if Mary would have said no then God would have chosen someone else to be the Mother of God. Mary did not have to be the Mother of God and therefore it was a planned pregnancy as she knew what was going to happen since the angel told her.
3. Mary had a supportive family and a husband who could support her, Joseph. Joseph agreed to be the foster father of Jesus. In the cases of abortion today most of the time the father is not involved with the situation or even enourages the abortion and rarely are they married.

So while this is a great analogy and a wonderful topic to pray upon I just worry that the argument will not fly past people who analyze the situation in depth rather than take your word for it. I just tore the situation apart and trust me, many people are capable of doing this including those who will have abortions so I am preparing you for what their responses will be.

Hello.wjp. I can understand some of your arguments and can understand that this story/belief won’t fly unless someone is willing to take the chance that with God all will be well.

1. An Angel appeared. All this being told her was that she was to be the Mother of the Son of God. Shock value? Yes. Completely understood by Mary? All she had was her Faith. She had no guarantees other than that.
2. A “planned pregnancy”? Not by Mary. Look at it from her viewpoint. Was this going to disrupt her plans for her life with Joseph, yes. Was she afraid? I would bet money on it. She wasn’t anymore planning to get pregnant than some of your girls.
3. When she accepted the offer to be the Mother of Jesus, did she “know” her family would be supportive? She knew there was a good chance neither they, nor Joseph would. Do you think they would take her word an angel appeared to her? Get real! Yeah, right. It took the message of another Angel to help Joseph to understand what happened. I doubt her parents, relatives, other than Elizabeth ,knew the baby she was carrying wasn’t Joseph’s. If they knew, as much as they loved her, the punishment for Mary would be stoning. So did she take a Great Risk for the sake of God? You betcha.
4. Did she have a supportive family? If they thought the baby was Joseph’s. Did Joseph stand by her? Only when another angel appeared to him and told him all would right. He was ready to “put her aside”.

Of course this analogy/story will only hold water only if one believes. So no matter which story/analogy you stress to your girls, it won’t work unless they are willing to hear it.

 

[Eddie89]

the idea that all life, every human life, every single breath breathed is warranted as unmeasurable and awesome. the idea transcends across every border from Eastern beliefs in Confucianism to Ancient Native American traditions. Excuses can be made from both the pro-life and pro-choice side and their are mistakes on both arguments. There is absolutley no concrete scientific proof that human conception is where life begins…why? because no one knows where human life begins but God. The Pro-Choice is wrong on the same spectrum, they claim a women’s body is her domain, however, are they denying human life? A basic belief and widely accepted thought. Mary accepted the Lord’s decision for her and took responsibility with FAITH. It is with faith that we know a human life begins in God’s eyes, and God does not mistakes when choosing our lives.

 

[elts1956]

the idea that all life, every human life, every single breath breathed is warranted as unmeasurable and awesome. the idea transcends across every border from Eastern beliefs in Confucianism to Ancient Native American traditions. Excuses can be made from both the pro-life and pro-choice side and their are mistakes on both arguments. There is absolutley no concrete scientific proof that human conception is where life begins…why? because no one knows where human life begins but God. The Pro-Choice is wrong on the same spectrum, they claim a women’s body is her domain, however, are they denying human life? A basic belief and widely accepted thought. Mary accepted the Lord’s decision for her and took responsibility with FAITH. It is with faith that we know a human life begins in God’s eyes, and God does not mistakes when choosing our lives.

Hello Eddie, while I believe life comes from God and only God really knows when life begins, all we humans have as proof of life is what the medical field tells us. As for me, I will stick to the Church’s dicturm that life begins at conception.

The following is a quote from a website you may want to visit.

religioustolerance.org/abo_fetu.htm

"At conception: One very lucky spermatozoon out of hundreds of millions ejaculated by the man will penetrate the outside layer of the ovum and fertilize it. This happens typically in the outer third of one of the woman’s Fallopian tubes. The surface of the ovum changes its electrical characteristics and normally prevents additional sperm from entering. A GENETICALLY UNIQUE ENTITY entity is formed shortly thereafter, called a zygote. This is commonly referred to as a “fertilized ovum.” However that term is not really valid because the ovum ceases to exist after conception. Half of the zygote’s 46 chromosomes come from the egg’s 23 chromosomes and the other half from the spermatozoon’s 23. “It has a unique DNA structure,” different from that of the ovum and the spermatozoon. The zygote "…is biologically alive. It fulfills the four criteria needed to establish biological life:

1. metabolism,
2. growth,
3. reaction to stimuli, and
4. reproduction." 1

 

[wjp984]

Hello.wjp. I can understand some of your arguments and can understand that this story/belief won’t fly unless someone is willing to take the chance that with God all will be well.

1. An Angel appeared. All this being told her was that she was to be the Mother of the Son of God. Shock value? Yes. Completely understood by Mary? All she had was her Faith. She had no guarantees other than that.
2. A “planned pregnancy”? Not by Mary. Look at it from her viewpoint. Was this going to disrupt her plans for her life with Joseph, yes. Was she afraid? I would bet money on it. She wasn’t anymore planning to get pregnant than some of your girls.
3. When she accepted the offer to be the Mother of Jesus, did she “know” her family would be supportive? She knew there was a good chance neither they, nor Joseph would. Do you think they would take her word an angel appeared to her? Get real! Yeah, right. It took the message of another Angel to help Joseph to understand what happened. I doubt her parents, relatives, other than Elizabeth ,knew the baby she was carrying wasn’t Joseph’s. If they knew, as much as they loved her, the punishment for Mary would be stoning. So did she take a Great Risk for the sake of God? You betcha.
4. Did she have a supportive family? If they thought the baby was Joseph’s. Did Joseph stand by her? Only when another angel appeared to him and told him all would right. He was ready to “put her aside”.

Of course this analogy/story will only hold water only if one believes. So no matter which story/analogy you stress to your girls, it won’t work unless they are willing to hear it.

Good point and I know your analagy can work good. However, here is my other concern. How do you use your analogy and still show how Mary did have a wonderful family as both her parents are saints and that Mary also had a wonderful and supportive husband, Joseph. I am overanalyzing this way too much but I feel the analogy might also could show disrespect to Mary’s family and Joseph even though that is not the intent.

 

[elts1956]

Good point and I know your analagy can work good. However, here is my other concern. How do you use your analogy and still show how Mary did have a wonderful family as both her parents are saints and that Mary also had a wonderful and supportive husband, Joseph. I am overanalyzing this way too much but I feel the analogy might also could show disrespect to Mary’s family and Joseph even though that is not the intent.

Hi. Are you saying many of the girls don’t 'KNOW" if their parents will be supportive? Do many of them come to you without their parents knowing they are pregnant? Need more of a picture, okay? Thanks.