About Mary and Papacy

[Ozanf]

Hi;

I have some questions…

1. About Papacy;

“As some Catholic theologians (such as Father Fastiggi) agree, many corrupt Popes were ungodly, and they will be found in Hell…” so how can we say that all Popes have infallibility?

2)About Mary;

Lk 1:46 And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord

Lk 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

So How can we say that Mary is sinless…She said:“My Savior” Doesn’t it mean that she needs a savior? (so She is sinfull like all humans on earth)

Thank you…

 

[James224]

Hi Ozanf,

You said: "I have some questions…

1. About Papacy;

“As some Catholic theologians (such as Father Fastiggi) agree, many corrupt Popes were ungodly, and they will be found in Hell…” so how can we say that all Popes have infallibility?"

My comment: Yes. Infallibility is different from “Impeccability”. Peter sinned and even denied Christ but he never made an error in proclaiming something on Faith and Morals. This is true with all the Popes. Pope John Paul II, I understand goes to Confession weekly which proves that he is a sinner. This has nothing to do with Infallibility.Infallibility is a charism of the Holy Ghost.

You said: "2)About Mary;
Lk 1:46 And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord
Lk 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
So How can we say that Mary is sinless…She said:“My Savior” Doesn’t it mean that she needs a savior? (so She is sinfull like all humans on earth)”

My Comment: Jesus is Mary’s Saviour too, it’s just that He saved her in a unique way, in a preventative way. She was preserved from sin from the moment of her conception. I could give more details but, for me, the key to understanding Mary and her sinlessness is that she is the Ark of the New Covenant. If you study the Ark of the Old Covenant and apply this understanding to Mary, all the doctrines concerning Mary will fall into place. Look at these 3 groups of verses:2 Sam 6:16 then go to Luke 1:41, 2 Sam 6:9 then go to Luke 1:43,
2 Sam 6:11 then go to Luke 1:56. I could give more if you want it.

May God bless,

James224

 

[Jadesfire20]

Ozanf:

Hi;

I have some questions…

1. About Papacy;

“As some Catholic theologians (such as Father Fastiggi) agree, many corrupt Popes were ungodly, and they will be found in Hell…” so how can we say that all Popes have infallibility?

2)About Mary;

Lk 1:46 And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord

Lk 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

So How can we say that Mary is sinless…She said:“My Savior” Doesn’t it mean that she needs a savior? (so She is sinfull like all humans on earth)

Thank you…

Hi there!

About the papacy: Infallibility has nothing to do with the man who is pope. Jesus promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against his church (see matthew chp 16), i.e. that the church will never be lead astray. Infallibility is a characteristic of the church which the pope exercises under certain circumstances. Infallibility is NOT impeccability (i.e. without fault or sin). All popes are sinners whether good or bad.

About Mary: Mary was a human being and like all humans needed a saviour, but she was saved by being conceived without sin, rather than being redeemed by the blood of Christ as we are.

Jade

 

[Juxtaposer]

Ozanf:

2)About Mary;

Lk 1:46 And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord

Lk 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

So How can we say that Mary is sinless…She said:“My Savior” Doesn’t it mean that she needs a savior? (so She is sinfull like all humans on earth)

Thank you…

Would Mary have known she was sinless? Not to say she did not need a savior, for her Savior would have been the one who kept her this way.

 

[Exporter]

Your question about a Pope and his sins ignores some facts.

The question has been answered.

Yes even a sinful Pope does exhibit “infallibility” when making decisions relating to Faith and Morals when he is in a meeting with all the Bishops.

A Pope cannot, all by himself, declare that, lets say, it is a sin to charge for the use of money. No can do.

Remember that Jesus gave infallibility to the Church not a man. The Church will go right on ticking along even though a particular Pope is sinful.

We talk about the Holy Mother Church being wise, not the Pope.

 

[mtr01]

Juxtaposer:

Would Mary have known she was sinless? Not to say she did not need a savior, for her Savior would have been the one who kept her this way.

Well, Gabriel’s greeting to Mary (in the Greek) was Chaire, Kecharitomene. I couldn’t tell you what the Aramaic equivalent for kecharitomene is, but based on the Greek, it’s a pretty safe bet that she knew. At the very least, she would know she was blessed in a special way, and would continue to be blessed.

There is a pretty good explanation of “kecharitomene” here

 

[mercygate]

Juxtaposer:

Would Mary have known she was sinless? Not to say she did not need a savior, for her Savior would have been the one who kept her this way.

What a GREAT question! (Good to see you here, Jux!) Often the greatest virtues are unseen by those who possess them. I used to have a confessor whose favorite response when people expressed a desire to increase in holiness was: “If you do, will you know it?”

As for the OP, my guess is that the interpretation of “lowliness” as “sinfulness” was given to him by people who wish to undermine the Catholic position. It is a common view. Yet Our Lord refers to himself as “lowly” (Mt. 11:29) and the Greek word he uses there is the same word that Mary uses in Lk 1:48: “tapeinos.” This view of “lowliness” is consistent with OT thought:

Job 5:11: he sets on high those who are lowly, and those who mourn are lifted to safety.

Job 22:29: For God abases the proud, but he saves thelowly.

Ps138:6: For though the LORD is high, he regards thelowly;
but the haughty he knows from afar.

Prov 16:19: It is better to be of alowly spirit with the poor
than to divide the spoil with the proud.

Prov 29:23: A man’s pride will bring him low, but he who islowly in spirit will obtain honor.