? about Mary for Baptists + 1 more

[Tony_Anastasis]

A lot of words are being poured out on what is surely an emotional subject.
At Cana Mary, immediately Jesus had answered her, turned the servants’ attention back to Jesus.
When I pray, my attention is on Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit.
Even if I phoned a friend and asked then to pray, my thoughts do not keep returning to the friend. I must concentrate on God. I do not think that the friend’s prayers will be more efficacious than my own.
Mary at Cana? She drew attention back to Jesus. He had his own ears and still does. He knows what each of us needs. Prayers direct to him are always heard. The danger is in taking our eyes away from Jesus.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Mary gave birth to Jesus… God only by the action of the Holy Spirit… God.

No, Mary was not before God, and no Mary did not give birth to God before the creation of Earth. Yes Mary is a human being that God chose AMONG ALL THOSE THAT WILL EVER EXIST to give birth to Jesus… God only by the action of the Holy Spirit… God.

Yes, why would you feel the need to tell me that? I already know, as you can see in my post.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Before there was Mary, there was God. Mary did not give birth to God before the creation of earth, ect…

Right, not before Jesus=God, Fail to see your point? You say that, to say what?

Mary is a human who gave birth to the Physical God. .

What the difference in the Divinity of the Father, the Son and the HS?

Still fail to your point or what you are “trying” to say.

Mary did not exist until wayyyyyyyyy after God created everything.

Still fail to see the point or what in the world this has to do with the “Incarnation”.

Bible “clearly” states in Luke; “Mother of the Lord”. The Jews called God, Lord out of respect.

Not sure what you are trying to convey? Could you elaborate?

 

[Tony_Anastasis]

I have one more thing. in the comment about praying to Saints and the parable about Lazarus, the gulf was between Lazarus and the rich man. Praying to saints in order to ask for their intercession is not the same as trying to contact the dead and have them speak to us as in the occult. WE are not trying to contact the dead and we are sending our prayers to saints how are a live in heaven for their help and intercession. I think this needs to be clarified.

You are correct about that scripture. it proves nothing either way. However we later see Abraham’s reluctance to send somebody from heaven to living brothers of the rich man; and he pointed them to pay attention to the holy scriptures.

27 So the rich man said, ‘Then I beg you, father – send Lazarus to my father’s house 28 (for I have five brothers) to warn them so that they don’t come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they must respond to them.’

But I will quote you the example of King Saul who wanted a dead saintly man to give him advice:-
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the LORD, but the LORD did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”

“There is one in Endor,” they said.

8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”

9 But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”

10 Saul swore to her by the LORD, “As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this.”

11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

“Bring up Samuel,” he said.

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”

13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”

The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure[a] coming up out of the earth.”

14 “What does he look like?” he asked.

“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.

Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

Please note the final line. Samuel was furious to have been disturbed, like a sleeper being rudely awakened. The fact of whether a medium was used is immaterial. Contact with a dead person, however saintly, was proscribed,

 

[Patavium]

The fact of whether a medium was used is immaterial. Contact with a dead person, however saintly, was proscribed,

Communion with Saints is NOT necromancy. The Catholic Church strictly prohibits such practices.

Look up 2 Kings 13:21 for an example of a posthumous miracle by God through intercession of Saint in Heaven.

See this discussion vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/on-the-communion-of-saints/

 

[robwar]

You are correct about that scripture. it proves nothing either way. However we later see Abraham’s reluctance to send somebody from heaven to living brothers of the rich man; and he pointed them to pay attention to the holy scriptures

Please note the final line. Samuel was furious to have been disturbed, like a sleeper being rudely awakened. The fact of whether a medium was used is immaterial. Contact with a dead person, however saintly, was proscribed,

Hi Tony!
2 things, we are praying to saints in order to have them speak to us or give us advice. King Saul went to a medium which was and is strictly forbidden. Asking for someone to pray for us who is now a live and in heaven is not the same as contacting the dead through us of some medium. The Revelation passage of saints standing before the throne of God with bowels of incense which are the prayers of the saints.

 

[JustaServant]

Is God the God of the dead or the living? Are those in Heaven living or dead?
Becoming Catholic again created a strange situation for me.
What about Mary and the Saints?
Even as a flaming fundamentalist I knew better than to say Catholics worshipped Mary, mainly because I grew up Catholic and knew that wasn‘t true. But wasn’t PRAYING to Mary and the Saints ‘worship’? For almost twenty years I heard about ‘Marian idolatry’.
In my younger years I bought into the ’Two Babylons’ lie that ‘Mary and saint worship’ came from Babylon. I would often hear that “Catholics pray to dead people.” Even after I dismissed the anti-Catholic lies, I was still uncomfortable with praying to Mary or any other saint. Are saints mere “dead people”? Was Jesus was practicing witchcraft at the transfiguration?
How did God break through that wall?
It began with understanding how the early Church, and the Hebrews in particular dealt with the subject of death and the afterlife.
In the modern world, when somebody dies, its as if they cease to exist. They are spoken of in the past tense, they were alive once, but now they are dead, gone, they cease to exist. We print their obituaries in the newspaper, show old pictures or film of them and talk about OUR memories.
In the ancient world, and in many parts of the world today, this is unknown. To the Hebrews, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were just not some names in history, they were part of a Covenant that transcended time itself.
God called Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is the God of the Living, not of the dead. Hebrew ancestors were NEVER spoken of as some forgotten point of history, but as a LIVING part of the Covenant.
In the early church, this thinking never changed.
When a Christian died in the Early Church, they ‘fell asleep’. They were never spoken of as just ‘dead’. Hebrews 12:1 says “Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,”
Those who have gone on before us are more alive than ever! We have the hope of the resurrection, so our EXPECTATION is that we will see them again. The Church is more than we can physically see.
Since we are all one Body of Christ, we are connected to each other by the Holy Spirit. Our deceased loved ones do not cease being part of the church just because they have gone on before us. They are STILL part of the Church and remain ‘on the church membership rolls’. We join hands with them spiritually as part of the mystical Body of Christ.
If the Saints are those who share in eternal life in Christ and full communion with God, then the Saints are living in a much more real way than those left on the earth. Catholics believe in a SPIRITUAL church, not just a physical one.
The saints are still alive in Christ and part of our worship.
Revelation shows the saints in heaven bring before the Lamb the prayers of the saints on earth. They are concerned over what is happening on this planet.God told us to ask others to intercede for us. Consider, only the righteous are in heaven. And Scripture says that prayers of the righteous are efficacious.
Revelation tells us of those who have overcome are ruling and reigning with Christ. He shares His power and glory with His Saints, and they reign as kings and priests, offering up prayers and petitions on our behalf.

 

[JustaServant]

God’s Word commands us to pray for one another:

1 Timothy 2:1-4 “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that not even death can separate us from Christ:

QUOTE]Rom. 8:38-39 “Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord"

Is not the Church the Body of Christ?

QUOTE]Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Mt 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.

Lu 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents (how did they know the sinner repented?) than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Tobit 12:14 So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."

2Maccabees 15: 11 He (Judas Maccabee) armed each of them not so much with confidence in shields and spears as with the inspiration of brave words, and he cheered them all by relating a dream, a sort of vision, which was worthy of belief. 12 What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. 13 Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. 14 And Onias spoke, saying, "This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God." 15 Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: 16 “Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries.”

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

 

[JustaServant]

Part of understanding the Communion of Saints, is that we ask for those living and dead to intercede or carry our prayers to Jesus.
Mary is a part of this Communion of Saints.
She is in a very real sense, our mystical connection to the spiritual Church.
How do we understand this?
In Gen. 3:15 we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” The phrase “her seed” is not seen elsewhere in Scripture. The Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling Satan.
This teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve. In John 2:4 and 19:26 Jesus calls Mary “woman” as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation.
This woman’s seed will crush the serpent’s skull.Isaiah 7:14 and Matt. 1:23 tell us a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means “God is with us.” Luke 1:35 tells us the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the “Theotokos”). In Luke 1:43 Elizabeth says Mary is the “Mother of my Lord” which is the equivalent of “Holy Mary, Mother of God”.
Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus’ Mother, so Mary is the mother of God.
Luke 1:28 states “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel. When Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the very words of God.
The phrase “full of grace”. This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. A few verses down, Luke 1:42 says “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.”
The phrase “blessed are you among women” really means “you are most blessed of all women.” Luke 1:48 says Mary prophesies that all generations shall call her blessed, as Catholics do in the “Hail Mary”. Gal. 4:4 - God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. By calling Mary co-redemptrix,
Catholics are simply calling Mary “the woman with the redeemer.” Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation.

 

[JustaServant]

Nowhere in Catholic teaching is there anything that directs Catholics to worship Mary. Catholics do not ‘worship’ Mary, we do however venerate her.Venerate means To regard with respect, reverence, and heartfelt deference.One of the 10 Commandments is “Honor your Father and your Mother.” One honors their father and mother and respects them. Catholics do so for their parents, and for the Blessed Virgin Mary.Worship means the reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or sacred object, which we do not accord to our parents.We pray “to” Mary in the old sense of the word. In Elizabethan English they would say "I pray thee…… It is a pleading to a person of dignity.
The Hail Mary says “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you! Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus! Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.” We are first “praying the scriptures”, and second, we are asking Mary to pray for us to the Lord even as I might ask a living Christian to do. For “the prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”
Family members and friends pray with and for one another, because we are the family of God.
When God touched my heart and the wall of anti-Catholicism was demolished, praying the Hail Mary was the first act I performed.
I remember it vividly. My whole world was shaken. In a moment of time God ‘mugged me from behind’ and the truth of the Catholic Church shown like a light in darkness. When I got home that night, I went into my bedroom alone and closed the door. That night I did something that I hadn’t done in two decades. I prayed the Lord’s Prayer and the Hail Mary.
The Lord’s Prayer was easy, that I had done many times before. I was scared to death to pray the Hail Mary. It was like kissing my wife for the first time. It was something I wanted to do and years of bigotry were overcome. After I was done, the Holy Spirit filled me with a joy I cannot describe.
A weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I felt at peace for the first time in many years.

 

[robwar]

Hi Tony!
2 things, we are praying to saints in order to have them speak to us or give us advice. King Saul went to a medium which was and is strictly forbidden. Asking for someone to pray for us who is now a live and in heaven is not the same as contacting the dead through us of some medium. The Revelation passage of saints standing before the throne of God with bowels of incense which are the prayers of the saints.

I meant to say NOT to have them speak to us!!! Sorry!

 

[GaryTaylor]

Please note the final line.

Do you believe in praying for family and/or friends when they sick or troubled?

 

[JonathonofOhio]

Excuse me for getting to the point rather quickly.
As a former Anglican and Baptist and now Free Church member, I want to say this about Marianism.
Aside from tradition of the CC, there is very slender reason to think of Mary as more than a good and divinely appointed woman. The scriptures say nothing about requesting her intercession…

This is argumentum ad ignorantiam - assuming that a claim is true (or false) because it has not been proven false (true) or cannot be proven false (true).

You are also stacking the deck - because the bible can be the only source of information, therefore no other information can be presented as evidence.

However we later see Abraham’s reluctance to send somebody from heaven to living brothers of the rich man; and he pointed them to pay attention to the holy scriptures.

Abraham was not in heaven in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. We know from historical references that the Hebrews believed that Sheol was the place where people went after they died, and that the place was divided. There was both a place of torment and a place of peace for the just. Jesus called the place of peace the Bosom of Abraham, and in the parable reveals this belief to be true. We also know from scripture that no one entered into heaven until Jesus went into heaven first. We also know that for a time, 3 days, he was reckoned among the dead, and peter conveyed this belief when he states that during that time he preached to those spirits who were in prison.

The very fact that the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to warn them, shows that the dead can communicate with the living. He is not given the answer, “it’s not possible.”, he is simply told that they will not listen even if a person should rise from the dead. which is exactly what Jesus did.

Furthermore, the saints in heaven are not dead, because Jesus promises us eternal life with him. Death has no dominion over them, because nothing can harm those in the hand of God, and there is no sin there. This is why Jesus says, “For he is not the God of the dead, but of the living: for all live to him.” when he shows that Moses expressed his belief in the resurrection to come by saying, “The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”.

You will not find much support for prayers to saints, or to Mary, or intercessory prayer for those who have died in the bible, because the books selected to be placed in the bible by the early church were written before anyone took issue with those traditions. Since the books after the gospels are accounts of the apostles actions immediately after Jesus rose from the dead, the first members of the church, of course we are not going to see a lot of evidence of prayers to Mary or the Saints. The bible doesn’t give an account of everything. It’s not a teacher, it’s a teacher’s tool.

 

[Patavium]

An interesting point is that not believing in the communion of saints leads to believing that the Church (the Body of Christ) is fragmented. Those on Earth, and those on Heaven are separated. This is ironic given that protestants are fragmented themselves unlike those that believe in the communion of saints.

 

[perro_sarnoso]

Since everyone seems to be walking on eggshells, I will say this as “charitably” as possible:

Mother of God is not a title that we catholics bestow on Mary as a ploy to exalt her outside of the parameters of christian authority…we actually abide by christian authority…after all…we are the original christians from whence all other “true” christians came.

I’m not sure at what point…Jesus was [not] the Son of God- or God Himself. So, it is difficult especially outside of the fold of the catholic church- to ascertain the theological certitude of this heresy.

Perhaps it is the reason why Theotokos- is a term repelled by protestant brothers and sisters. Aieparthenos comes to mind also…as well as Kecharitomene…because the significant, original christian world speaks the truth of Christ and His mother.

I love my poor protestant, christian brothers and sisters…and I pray that someday…they will come back to the One, True, Catholic and Apostolic church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter, as it’s first Pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI…and the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against her.

Pray the Rosary everyday…

In hoc signo vinces.

 

[Patavium]

A little bit about the Blessed Mother from Calvin himself. Enjoy!

(Calvin’s Commentaries are available at ccel.org/.)

And knew her not This passage afforded the pretext for great disturbances, which were introduced into the Church, at a former period, by Helvidius [c. 4th century AD]. The inference he drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband. Jerome [c. 347 to 420 AD], on the other hand, earnestly and copiously defended Mary’s perpetual virginity. Let us rest satisfied with this, that no just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words of the Evangelist, as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called first-born; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin. It is said that Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: but this is limited to that very time. What took place afterwards, the historian does not inform us. Such is well known to have been the practice of the inspired writers. Certainly, no man will ever raise a question on this subject, except from curiosity; and no man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.

John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark and Luke, First Volume (page 107)

The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned.

John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Second Volume (page 215)

 

[Patavium]

Now Luther’s commentaries

*Take note of this: no one should put his trust or confidence in the Mother of God or in her merits, for such trust is worthy of God alone and is the lofty service due only to him. Rather praise and thank God through Mary and the grace given her. Laud and love her simply as the one who, without merit, obtained such blessings from God, sheerly out of his mercy, as she herself testifies in the Magnificat [Luke 1:46-55].

It is very much the same when I am moved by a view of the heavens, the sun, and all creation to exalt him who created everything, bringing all this into my prayer and praise, saying: O God, Author of such a beautiful and perfect creation, grant to me…. Similarly, our prayer should include the Mother of God as we say: O God, what a noble person you have created in her! May she be blessed! And so on. And you who honored her so highly, grant also to me….

Let not our hearts cleave to her, but through her penetrate to Christ and to God himself. Thus what the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: “Hail, Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee [Luke 1:28]; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen.”

You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor. Similarly there is no petition in the first words of the Lord’s Prayer but rather praise and glorification that God is our Father and that he is in heaven. Therefore we should make the Hail Mary neither a prayer nor an invocation because it is improper to interpret the words beyond what they mean in themselves and beyond the meaning given them by the Holy Spirit.

But there are two things we can do. First, we can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her [as one blessed by God].

In the first place, she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin-something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil.

In the second place, God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her.

In the third place, she is blessed above all other women, not only because she gave birth without labor, pain, and injury to herself, not as Eve and all other women, but because by the Holy Spirit and without sin, she became fertile, conceived, and gave birth in a way granted to no other woman.

In the fourth place, her giving birth is blessed in that it was spared the curse upon all children of Eve who are conceived in sin [Ps. 51:5] and born to deserve death and damnation. Only the fruit of her body is blessed, and through this birth we are all blessed.
Furthermore, a prayer or wish is to be added-our prayer for all who speak evil against this Fruit and the Mother. But who is it that speaks evil of this Fruit and the Mother? Any who persecute and speak evil against his work, the gospel, and the Christian faith, as Jews and papists are now doing.

The conclusion of this is that in the present no one speaks evil of this Mother and her Fruit as much as those who bless her with many rosaries and constantly mouth the Hail Mary. These, more than any others, speak evil against Christ’s word and faith in the worst way.

Therefore, notice that this Mother and her Fruit are blessed in a twofold way-bodily and spiritually. Bodily with lips and the words of the Hail Mary; such persons blaspheme and speak evil of her most dangerously. And spiritually [one blesses her] in one’s heart by praise and benediction for her child, Christ-for all his words, deeds, and sufferings. And no one does this except he who has the true Christian faith because without such faith no heart is good but is by nature stuffed full of evil speech and blasphemy against God and all his saints. For that reason he who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Haft Mary and all other prayers because to such a person the words apply: Let his prayer be sin [Ps. 109:7].*

Luther’s Works, Vol. 43, pages 39 to 41

 

[Daganoweda]

I am a previous Roman Catholic. At one time worshiping at the Immaculate Conception Church at Holyoke, MA. I would say that the title “Mother of God” is not the title for Mary, mother of Jesus. I also believe that Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God in the same manner as God is Father, Son & Holy Spirit all separate yet all one. Man’s finite mind cannot comprehend how this can be so; so why should we be surprised that man cannot comprehend the duality of Christ. Mary gave birth to the 100% man portion of Jesus while the 100% God portion was pre-existing and was with the Father and the Holy Spirit when creation came into existance. As to Genesis 3:15 being evidence that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history; there appears to be a flaw in the logic. This verse pertains to the seed of Eve and not Mary. As to the argument that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant; this also is flawed as Mary would cease to be the Ark of the New Covenant once Jesus was born as she no longer contained the New Covenant within her. I would gladly continue with other areas. For example, most Baptists believe that Mary had other children per Matthew 13:55-56 & Mark 6:3. Matthew and Mark both wrote what non-believers were saying as a derrogatory statement of Jesus. Furthermore, the Greek language has different words for brother and cousin (i.e. adelphos for brother & anepsioi for cousin) To claim that they were children of Joseph’s from a prior marriage runs into problems in view of Luke 2:5, Matthew 2:13 & Matthew 2:20. Baptists, for the most part, do not speak to their relatives in Heaven. Again, for the most part, Baptists are not required to believe everything that the church says is true but are required to believe every word of the Holy Bible. Anyone is free to contact me with any further question that I might be able to assist you in any way I can. Yours in Christ.

 

[chid]

Remember that the flesh and blood that went to the cross and died for our sins was given to Jesus, by Mary. Think about this.