J
janstar_21
Guest
We catholics are often being accused of idolatry by non-catholics…is there any verse in the Bible that can support our beliefs in Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints? 
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T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Actually, you do not even have to go that far. That puts you in the “defense” position.
Put yourself in the offensive position (but don’t be offensive, LOL).
They accuse Catholics of idolatry on what basis? Just where in the Bible does it say that Mary is not to be treated with love and respect (we don’t worship her, but we honor and respect her). Umm, I believe in Luke 2 Mary says, “every generation shall call me blessed”.
Looks like the Catholics are doing exactly what the Bible says to do here, doesn’t it?
Remember again we do not worship the saints. Does not St. Paul tell us of the “great cloud of witnesses” (the saints in heaven) who hear and intercede for us? Does not Paul ask us to pray for one another? Does not James tell us that the prayer of a just man for another is praiseworthy? Does not 2 Maccabees tell us that it is a right and just thing to pray for the dead?
First they have to PROVE that we are idolaters.
Based on the Bible, they cannot. We call Mary blessed, as the Bible tells us to do. We pray for the dead, as the Bible tells us to do. We pray for each other, here on earth and in heaven, as the Bible tells us to do.
Because, when it comes right down to it, we are doing just what Jesus told us: The greatest commandment is to know God, to love God, and to serve God with one’s whole heart, mind, and strength. And the second commandment is like this–you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Following God’s word, in the Bible, and God’s WORD, Jesus made flesh, we Catholics are obedient to the two great commandments, on which rest the law and the prophets.
Put yourself in the offensive position (but don’t be offensive, LOL).
They accuse Catholics of idolatry on what basis? Just where in the Bible does it say that Mary is not to be treated with love and respect (we don’t worship her, but we honor and respect her). Umm, I believe in Luke 2 Mary says, “every generation shall call me blessed”.
Looks like the Catholics are doing exactly what the Bible says to do here, doesn’t it?
Remember again we do not worship the saints. Does not St. Paul tell us of the “great cloud of witnesses” (the saints in heaven) who hear and intercede for us? Does not Paul ask us to pray for one another? Does not James tell us that the prayer of a just man for another is praiseworthy? Does not 2 Maccabees tell us that it is a right and just thing to pray for the dead?
First they have to PROVE that we are idolaters.
Based on the Bible, they cannot. We call Mary blessed, as the Bible tells us to do. We pray for the dead, as the Bible tells us to do. We pray for each other, here on earth and in heaven, as the Bible tells us to do.
Because, when it comes right down to it, we are doing just what Jesus told us: The greatest commandment is to know God, to love God, and to serve God with one’s whole heart, mind, and strength. And the second commandment is like this–you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Following God’s word, in the Bible, and God’s WORD, Jesus made flesh, we Catholics are obedient to the two great commandments, on which rest the law and the prophets.
M
Mystophilus
Guest
I would suggest that you could politely explain to these people that Catholics do not actually worship Mary or the others, and so no idolatry is taking place. The advantages that such a humble reaction will have are that it will show them the Spirit of Christ and that it will show you who among them is actually ready to listen. Pray for the others, but do not waste too much time talking; they do not want to listen, and so they will not.We catholics are often being accused of idolatry by non-catholics…is there any verse in the Bible that can support our beliefs in Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints?
H
hurst
Guest
After hearing this so many times, I would like to speak up.
As Catholics, we should stop claiming we “don’t worship” Mary, as if it were evil to do so. Why? Because it is overly defensive.
The fact of the matter is that the Church has been around for 2000 years, and for most of that time, the word “worship” had a meaning that in fact would often be applied to people of worth.
Protestants who come on the attack in this case have a long list of quotes from older material, and they use their own definition of the word “worship” to judge the statements made many years ago in establishing the honor and worship we give to Mary and the Saints.
I think it would be most honest to simply admit that yes, we do “worship” Mary and the Saints, but only according to the meaning of that word as it was hundreds of years ago.
The same can be said of other words. The term “gay” meant something totally different 50 years ago, but has been hijacked for a different purpose nowadays. But you might still meet some people with the first name “Gay”. I am sure they are not happy about the change in meaning. Instead of denying the implication to young people of today, they are excused if they explain it meant something different many years ago.
So, in our Church, we have worship of “latria”, which we render to God only. And we have worship of “dulia”, which we render to the Saints. Mary is given the worship of “hyperdulia”, meaning above all the Saints.
It should be noted, however, that we DO worship the Blessed Sacrament as truly God, with the worship of “latria”. So, if anything, Protestants should complain about that, since they don’t believe that is God as we do.
Finally, we could counter them with the point that they do NOT worship God appropriately. They offer no sacrifice, which is appropriate worship to God. All they do is sing songs and pray to God. Well, guess what? That is what we do to Mary and the Saints: sing songs and pray to them. So no wonder Protestants accuse us of giving them worship of God: their own worship to God is no better than what we give to Mary and the Saints. But we offer a higher worship to God: the sacrifice of the Mass. Protestants are the ones who are culpable here…
hurst
M
Mystophilus
Guest
What do you suppose their reaction to such an accusation is likely to be, and where do you suppose that the commandment to love your neighbour as yourself is demonstrated therein?
If you want to attack the body of Christ for your own entertainment, I can hardly stop you. However, should you wish to attempt to reconcile the estranged members of the family, you may find that the love which Jesus preached is more conducive to that end.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Don’t sweat it…here’s a whole thread that answers this :We catholics are often being accused of idolatry by non-catholics…is there any verse in the Bible that can support our beliefs in Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints?
Dave’s Allegation That Catholics are Idolators
Pax tecum,
M
Mystophilus
Guest
More accurately, Roman Catholics are often accused of idolatry by Protestant anti-Catholics. The Orthodox, whose veneration of icons would seem to make them a soft target for such an accusation, are left alone. This quite clearly shows that the genesis of the accusation is more political than strictly theological.We catholics are often being accused of idolatry by non-catholics…is there any verse in the Bible that can support our beliefs in Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints?
H
hurst
Guest
Hi.
First of all, I was not focusing on any reaction. I am putting things in perspective toward someone who is accusing us of inappropriate worship, and showing that the accusation rightfully falls on them, not us.
Speak softly with the weak, but strongly with the strong.
Do you mean to imply that pointing out their failure is not charitable?!
Spiritual Works of Mercy:
- Admonish the sinner.
- Instruct the ignorant.
Matt 15:7 Hypocrites, well hath Isaias prophesied of you, saying: 8 This people honoureth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me. 9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.
Now, I have dealt with Protestants who “accuse” Catholics of following the vain traditions of men. Such are themselves following the traditions of their own denomination and of heretics from years ago who broke off from Holy Mother Church. It is chariable to exert the effort to extirpate error by shining light on the darkest spot. While they may still reject the truth, yet others witnessing this may be edified.
Love consists in love of the Truth first, for we cannot love our neighbor without first loving truth. We must love God, and then love our neighbor because we love God.
Now you are the one accusing me.
I did nothing for my own entertainment. I am offering my time to share my gifts with others on this forum. I am speaking from experience.
This is not a matter of reconciling someone who is coming in meekness. This is a matter of dealing with an attack.
If a Protestant came innocently and asked in all humility with a desire to understand why we give such honor to Mary, then things would be totally different.
hurst
C
Church_Militant
Guest
1st Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.
16 But with modesty and fear, having a good conscience: that whereas they speak evil of you, they may be ashamed who falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17 For it is better doing well (if such be the will of God) to suffer, than doing ill.
Pax vobiscum,
16 But with modesty and fear, having a good conscience: that whereas they speak evil of you, they may be ashamed who falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17 For it is better doing well (if such be the will of God) to suffer, than doing ill.
Pax vobiscum,
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