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edwinG

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Hi,
I have been reading the thread on the pope kissing the qur’an and I did not really want to become embroiled in that issue in isolation, but wanted to use that issue for us to be aware of the witness of our actions.
The Holy Spirit has taught me that being right for the wrong reasons is not to be right at all.
Any scripture that does not promote Jesus is from evil. The pope was completely wrong to kiss the qur’an. God hates the qur’an.
But He does love the people so if the pope wanted to kiss anything he should be kissing the people, muslim or otherwise.
I wont go to false places of worship. The reason is Christ wants to use me for His higher purposes. Now if I go and let myself be seen at other places of worship, then how can Jesus use me. If after wards Jesus used me, the people of that misdirected religion would claim it was because of my association with them. Christians would claim Christ but the religion x would make their own claim. This divides Christ so my actions have just disqualified me from helping Christ any further.
Additionally, imagine the scenario of a catholic in love with a muslim and both want the other to change. Now the pope has weakened the position of the catholic and strengthened the position of the muslim. If the christian decided to relent because the pope spoke so highly of the muslim and kissed the qur’an, he has something to answer for, a lost christian.
Corinthians 9:21-23 was quoted and it is a good quote, but it does not apply in this sense because the pope was not being mindful of people other than catholics. He would be sure to retain most if not all of their love and support but what harm has he done to people in the spaces inbetween.Who has he led to Christ. Love the people not the teaching of evil.
There is a **wild confusion **between the evil contained in the purpose of these teachings and the wisdom of God. Their purpose is to lead people away from Christ. God’s wisdom is that they contain words that could be in most part contained in Holy Scripture. And this is God’s wisdom, that in the end time, every knee will bow to Christ, every tongue will confess His Holy name, therefore the sins will be cast away and our lifes works will be left for judgment. The evil purpose will boomerang on the evil one, and God’s wisdom will prevail.
Gods wisdom is not to be the cause for promoting evil.
We have to me so mindful of our actions and be very cautious of our words. My mouth was a size 9+ ( matching my foot size) but it is being reduced through grace.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinG
 
True appearances are important but they are not everything and they are, after all, only skin deep. Besides a century of advertising science has shown us that appearances can be manipulated.

Was it St Paul who scandalized everyone by sitting down to eat with a Roman centurion?

If you want to spread the word to non-Christians then you kind of have to go to where the non-Christians are.
 
As Christians, when it comes to judging the motives and actions of others, especially our ordained Christian leaders, we are to give them the benefit of the doubt.

In the discussion on the Eighth Commandment, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor,” the Catechism of the Catholic Church says (emphasis added):
2477. Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
2478. To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

2479. Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

In the particular case of the Pope kissing a gift-copy of the Qur’an, it must be acknowledged that there is much error in the Qur’an but there is also some truth in it. For instance, the Qur’an teaches that there is only one God and it honors Abraham, Moses, Mary and Jesus, though not in the fullness of truth. If the Pope wished to acknowledge what was true in the Qur’an, dispite its errors, by kissing the book, I don’t see it as any more inappropriate than what St. Paul did in Athens when “he saw that the city was full of idols” and he praised the Athenians, saying, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious.” By acknowledging the truth that his hears already accepted, even though it was mixed with many errors, St. Paul was able open the minds of his hearers to the Gospel. Imagine how receptive the pagan Athenians would have been to what Paul had to say about Jesus if he first smashed all their idols and insulted them. Imagine how receptive the heretical Muslims would have been to what the Pope had to say about Jesus if he first threw the Qur’an into a garbage can and insulted the Muslims.
 
you’re certainly right, edwin, that those religious groups could (and i’m sure, would) claim that you did good things because of your association with them. this doesn’t mean that they’re right, or that we should avoid association with those people for the fear of what they might claim later.

i think the muslims would be hard pressed to say that the good that the pope accomplishes in his lifetime is a result of his kissing the q’uran. 🙂

as your thread names attests, actions are extremely important. i think it’s best to remember our greatest commandments when deciding how to act. love God, and love one another. if i were muslim, i would interpret the pope’s kissing the q’uran as an act of love, rather than devisive condemnation.

i can understand how people might have a problem with this, but love often causes scandal.
 
Steve Andersen:
True appearances are important but they are not everything and they are, after all, only skin deep. Besides a century of advertising science has shown us that appearances can be manipulated.

Was it St Paul who scandalized everyone by sitting down to eat with a Roman centurion?

If you want to spread the word to non-Christians then you kind of have to go to where the non-Christians are.
Click to expand...
Hi Steve,.
This is true but you dont have to kiss the evil teachings.
Kiss the people as God loves all.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwin
 
Todd Easton:
As Christians, when it comes to judging the motives and actions of others, especially our ordained Christian leaders, we are to give them the benefit of the doubt.

In the discussion on the Eighth Commandment, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor,” the Catechism of the Catholic Church says (emphasis added): 2477. Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
2478. To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

2479. Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

In the particular case of the Pope kissing a gift-copy of the Qur’an, it must be acknowledged that there is much error in the Qur’an but there is also some truth in it. For instance, the Qur’an teaches that there is only one God and it honors Abraham, Moses, Mary and Jesus, though not in the fullness of truth. If the Pope wished to acknowledge what was true in the Qur’an, dispite its errors, by kissing the book, I don’t see it as any more inappropriate than what St. Paul did in Athens when “he saw that the city was full of idols” and he praised the Athenians, saying, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious.” By acknowledging the truth that his hears already accepted, even though it was mixed with many errors, St. Paul was able open the minds of his hearers to the Gospel. Imagine how receptive the pagan Athenians would have been to what Paul had to say about Jesus if he first smashed all their idols and insulted them. Imagine how receptive the heretical Muslims would have been to what the Pope had to say about Jesus if he first threw the Qur’an into a garbage can and insulted the Muslims.
Click to expand...
Hi Todd,
Thanks for responding and thank you for posting the portion of the catechism.
That you found it necessary to magnify my words, from the reality of the pope kissing the qur’an to throwing it in a garbage can and insulting the muslims speaks volumes. I guess you must agree with me.
I want to reiterate , Dont confuse God’s holy wisdom with evil intent, because all that does not lead to Jesus is evil. I am only aware of the Holy Bible leading to Christ. All else is evil. So I wont be miss quoted, I will add that God loves all people , irrespective of which book they read,but that is His wisdom, not something good about the book. Look to the intent of the book.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
40.png
jeffreedy789:
you’re certainly right, edwin, that those religious groups could (and i’m sure, would) claim that you did good things because of your association with them. this doesn’t mean that they’re right, or that we should avoid association with those people for the fear of what they might claim later.

i think the muslims would be hard pressed to say that the good that the pope accomplishes in his lifetime is a result of his kissing the q’uran. 🙂

as your thread names attests, actions are extremely important. i think it’s best to remember our greatest commandments when deciding how to act. love God, and love one another. if i were muslim, i would interpret the pope’s kissing the q’uran as an act of love, rather than devisive condemnation.

i can understand how people might have a problem with this, but love often causes scandal.
Click to expand...
HI jeffreedy,
Thanks for the post jeff. Yes , love is the greatest gift and we should walk in love, trusting in His grace and in His strength and wisdom. I am glad you agree with my post and yes of course we have to mix with the people, otherwise how would the word spread. But we dont show approval of their sinful teachings. How can we help them by endorsing their scripture. Certainly we must show our love for them, but that does not include endorsing that part that we have to overcome. By doing such things, like kissing the qur’an, we are entrenching them in their belief and making our work harder. How would you feel if you were converting a muslim and then he said to you, oh your pope approves of the qur’an. That would floor you. And no matter what you said, he just said No he kissed our book because he knows it is a good book.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
Our Blessed Mother is frequently pictured carried/resting/standing on the crescent moon. I know God has a plan for every sparrow. I am very curious about God’s plan for those who worship Him through Islam and how I can help and cooperate in God’s plans for others.

I used to be really upset about that kiss too. Now, I think he was probably doing right along the lines of Todd’s post.
 
The Holy Spirit has taught me that being right for the wrong reasons is not to be right at all.
Click to expand...
Is this in the Bible or you made it up?

Pio
 
I wont go to false places of worship. The reason is Christ wants to use me for His higher purposes. Now if I go and let myself be seen at other places of worship, then how can Jesus use me. If after wards Jesus used me, the people of that misdirected religion would claim it was because of my association with them. Christians would claim Christ but the religion x would make their own claim. This divides Christ so my actions have just disqualified me from helping Christ any further.
Click to expand...
Is Christ really leading you or is it only a product of your imagination? Probably you hear some strange voices inside you and you conclude right away that’s it’s Christ speaking to you? So many Protestants had claimed this but all of them disagree with one another in their basic man-made doctrines.

Pio
 
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