Actual and Sanctifying Grace

[mkw]

Gotta question…

This may have been addressed many times before, but I didn’t not find it. Anyway. Here goes.

Do protestants believe in both kinds of grace or just grace in general terms? I ask, because I am in a discussion with a Baptist preacher concerning the sinlessness of Mary.

I pointed out the Book of Luke when St. Gabrial says “Hail, Full of Grace” as one,(not all) reason why The Blessed Mother is without sin. He jumped all over that, saying that Grace DID NOT mean being with sin from the beginning, meaning her conception.

Need a little help in understanding the protestant view of grace.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Protestants do believe that one can not sanctify oneself, and therefore are sanctified through grace. Many also believe in something called prevenial grace, which is the grace that one needs to choose to follow God initially. Everyone receives sufficient prevenial grace. Both kinds of graces are a gift from God. A Protestant does not believe in actual grace as what I know actual grace to be. If you define actual grace as the gift of whatever the physical thing is that delivers the sanctifying grace, a Protestant would say, “If it didn’t sanctify me it wasn’t grace.” Of course, all Protestants are different. My background is Arminian Evangelical, so that’s my side of it.

mkw:

Gotta question…

This may have been addressed many times before, but I didn’t not find it. Anyway. Here goes.

Do protestants believe in both kinds of grace or just grace in general terms? I ask, because I am in a discussion with a Baptist preacher concerning the sinlessness of Mary.

I pointed out the Book of Luke when St. Gabrial says “Hail, Full of Grace” as one,(not all) reason why The Blessed Mother is without sin. He jumped all over that, saying that Grace DID NOT mean being with sin from the beginning, meaning her conception.

Need a little help in understanding the protestant view of grace.

 

[mkw]

Juxtaposer…

This Baptist preacher, did not mention anything about prevenial grace, just grace in general, so it’s a new term to me. Will ask him though.

We are to discuss next week the Catholic version of Faith/Salvation v/s Faith alone, or “Once Saved Always Saved”. Plus the Sinlessness of Mary v/s Mary a sinner(his view). I will be using the King James Bible to base my discussion on, need to find one

As any good Baptist preacher can, he can quote chapter and verse from the bible, so I must be totally comfortable also with doing that, at least on these two doctrines.

He also mentioned that one does NOT need to be baptised by water to be saved

Anyway, I still need to get a better understanding what a Baptist views of Grace are if I am know how to base my argument(oops–discussion ) on.

 

[Fidelis]

Juxtaposers description of the Protestant understanding of grace is what my understanding of their general position is as well.

For a very good treatment of this, check out the Catholic Answers tract Grace: What It is and What it Does, available here:

catholic.com/library/Grace_What_It_Is.asp

It gives a good explanation of the Catholic view of grace, sanctification and salvation, and presents aspects of the general Protestant view as well.

Be careful not to let this gentleman overwhelm you with too many topics at once. Respectfully suggest that he stick to one topic at a time.

 

[mkw]

I did my level best to keep him to one topic, we settled on two. Salvation and the Sinlessness of Mary.

His style is to cut you off in mid-thought and throw multiple bible verses at ya. He told me that all Tradition was man made and not support in the bible. When I pressed him on WHICH ONE, he would only say all of them. I will not even try to dispell his opinions, where would I begin?

Anyway, although I am very nervous about our next meeting, (hope I wont show it), and I also excited about it. I know there is little to no way that I will convince him the Catholic position is right and biblical/apostolic, I just don’t want to loose any ground to him, a draw would be nice.

I have only been a Catholic for a little under a year now, but my faith is firm and based on the TURTH of what Holy Mother Church teaches, lead by the Holy Spirit.