Addiction to unapproved apparitions

[LukeQ]

Hi,
This thread may appear to be contraversal to some but I genuinely need some advice

I have become aware in the last week that a fellow Catholic friend is professing what appear to be Heretical ideologies picked up from various unapproved apparitions, and one major one in particular that contains 33 volumes of writings. There appears to be with her, a bluring of the Deposit of Faith, (public revalation), and private revalation.

Also, it was inferred to me that I was not “pure” resulting in my cautious stance in these matters and lack of immediate and unqualified acceptance. Her stance and emotion reminded me of people whom have become victims to various secular cults like Church of Scientology and Landmark Education who use coercive techniques to confuse original belief systems in order to adopt the groups new belief systems/constructs/strongholds.

Apart from explaining the herasies to my friend, (who will chose not to hear my explainations), does anyone have any other sugestions to exit counsel her?

I will supply the name of the apparitions if asked by the moderators. I believe the herasies involved are Quietism and elements of Albergensiansim with some new concepts around the Eucharist that are really quite sickening. My friend is also a daily communicant and rossary advocate - just to confuse things a little.
Thanks,
Luke

 

[jrabs]

Luke - I am very interested in the responses generated on this thread. I have a friend with the VERY same problem. It is getting increasingly worse. I cannot seem to help her or talk to her about this in a logical sound way.

She also attends daily mass and Adoration.

How to lift the veil covering her eyes?

LukeQ:

Hi,
This thread may appear to be contraversal to some but I genuinely need some advice

I have become aware in the last week that a fellow Catholic friend is professing what appear to be Heretical ideologies picked up from various unapproved apparitions, and one major one in particular that contains 33 volumes of writings. There appears to be with her, a bluring of the Deposit of Faith, (public revalation), and private revalation.

Also, it was inferred to me that I was not “pure” resulting in my cautious stance in these matters and lack of immediate and unqualified acceptance. Her stance and emotion reminded me of people whom have become victims to various secular cults like Church of Scientology and Landmark Education who use coercive techniques to confuse original belief systems in order to adopt the groups new belief systems/constructs/strongholds.

Apart from explaining the herasies to my friend, (who will chose not to hear my explainations), does anyone have any other sugestions to exit counsel her?

I will supply the name of the apparitions if asked by the moderators. I believe the herasies involved are Quietism and elements of Albergensiansim with some new concepts around the Eucharist that are really quite sickening. My friend is also a daily communicant and rossary advocate - just to confuse things a little.
Thanks,
Luke

 

[YinYangMom]

I honestly don’t believe there is anything one can say to help people who are so swayed by such things. They ‘need’ to believe in these things for some reason and will resist any attempt to pull them out of their safety zone.

Prayer is what is most needed for them, fervent prayer asking the Holy Spirit to reveal to them the fallacies before them, for their souls are aching and lost at the moment.

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

Maybe you could find a tape or video that explains private revelation.

 

[LukeQ]

Jrabs - I empathise with your situation and as YinYangMom says, we need to pray but I also believe that prayer with the right directed action is the answer.

DeconTony has suggested a video - good start - does anyone know of a video explaining private revolation and also the process of church approval?

The contradiction I see is this: With this particular private revelation, “believers” have been asked to anhililate their free will so as to be fully under the power of God’s Will. The process in achieving this state is determined by ones’ purity. Aside from the heresy, this sets up an interesting psychological situation that keeps the person bound in the stronghold. The “believer” of the private revelation becomes resistant to others saying: “think about this”, because the private revilation says, "be pure, accept and anhiliate your free will - STOP THINKING… effectively, turning off logic and reasoning, the gatekeepers of the mind. Also, the private revelation supports daily Mass and the Rossary so things don’t seem suspicious - ie: no one is being asked to live away from family which does raise cult suspicions.

1. Does anyone have experience in exit couseling someone in this type of situation?
2. Is my thread in the right area of this board as I am new.

Thanks,
Luke

 

[puzzleannie]

Fr Groeschel has an excellent book addressing this very issue, which I lent to a friend, and of which I cannot remember the title, but I have discussed it elsewhere on these forums. Maybe someone else remembers it.

The root problem is the same as with all dissent: refusal to accept in full the magesterial teaching of the Catholic Church, which is always rooted in pride and disobedience, the first sins of our first parents. They always lead ultimately to schism and heresy, whether “right wing” as you describe or “left wing” like the Call to Action folks. No one who adopts and persists in such an attitude can call themselves “Catholic” honestly, and may even reach the point of excommunicating themselves.

 

[LukeQ]

Hi Puzzleannie,

is this the book:
A STILL SMALL VOICE (cost $12.00)
Guide on Reported Revelations - Fr. Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R.
franciscanfriars.com/btc/btc%20benedict.htm

I’m in Sydney, Australia so I will see if there is access to this book locally if this is the one. If this is it, can you recall the structure of his book and areas covered?

Thanks so much for your help!
Luke

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

Such a person, even to their own peril to believe in something contrary to the faith, is seeking such matters out of pride and not out of Love of God.

Ultimately you can speak every truth to a person but it is up to them to embrace truth.

You must pray for such souls and fervently especially before the Blessed Sacrament , invoking the Holy Spirit to come to them and convict their hearts.

This person you mention remains in my prayers always.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[mgarstin]

33 volumes eh? That’s probably Luisa Piccaretta and the Divine Will, but that is actually 36 volumes. Only the first 19 have been approved by St. Hannibal though.

So what private revelation is she reading?

 

[LukeQ]

Hi mgarstin,

Sorry - it is 36 volumes. I purposely did not mention this series of apparitions because there is much debate and confusion as to its approval status and I did not want this thread to end up a debate on Divine Will.

I believe that the First 19 volumes as you have mentioned are NOT approved. St. Hannibal did not approve the writings, he provided a Nilhil Obstat back in 1934 for the first 4 volumes and where latter condemmed in 1938 by Rome but this fact is left out in the publications in circulation. I believe there is a process of examination by Rome commencing in October of this year.

My concern is that devotees, and in particular my friend, seem not to distinguish between the Deposit of Faith and unapproved apparitions, or for that matter, approved private revelations. Their ferver verges on manic and their response to priests is typically, disobendient arrogence, questioning the purity rather than staying on topic and questioning the alleged theology/ideology.

As an aside - the whole area of the granting of Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, Cannonisation of Saints and the mutual exclusivity of their Cannonisation to that of their own authodoxy of private revelation needs to be better understood.

Luke

 

[Viki59]

LukeQ:

Jrabs -
The contradiction I see is this: With this particular private revelation, “believers” have been asked to anhililate their free will so as to be fully under the power of God’s Will.

The problem with this is that it’s unbiblical. St Paul said to try the spirits, and approved of those who spent time studying his arguments and comparing them to scripture.
You could point out that it’s fine to be under God’s will, but He expects us to use our intellects, or we can end up following a Jim Jones and passing out koolaid.

 

[LukeQ]

springbreeze - Teresa,
Thanks for your prayers in this situation.
I agree with you that pride can be the culprit here but in these situations, the ideology takes hold of the person and the person becomes “one with it”. “Attack the ideology and you attack me”…

Prayer is the way but St Jude 1:23 in his letter urges us to help those who have succomed to heresy so where it is helpful to understand the possible reasons why a person hooks into an ideology, “Pride”, we need to move from that and work out what to do.

There must be someone out there that has rescued someone from eroneous private revelation and I am seeking their advice, but, I always want to hear from those with ideas too. This has been and still is a big problem in our church.

Viki59,
The ideology of KDW appears to be more than just unbiblical. One of the concepts - anililating ones own free will to the Divine Will has already beeen flagged as heresy “Quietism”
newadvent.org/cathen/12608c.htm
The problem here is that supporters of this ideology actually stop thinking for themselves so how does one get through???

puzzleannie,
In an earlier post, have I found the book you mentioned?

Thanks all for your prayers and I welcome your suggestions.
Luke

 

[puzzleannie]

LukeQ:

Hi Puzzleannie,

is this the book:
A STILL SMALL VOICE (cost $12.00)
Guide on Reported Revelations - Fr. Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R.
franciscanfriars.com/btc/btc%20benedict.htm

I’m in Sydney, Australia so I will see if there is access to this book locally if this is the one. If this is it, can you recall the structure of his book and areas covered?

Thanks so much for your help!
Luke

yes, thank you, it is an excellent book, I have owned 2 copies, but keep lending it out because it is so good on how to discern if apparitions, locutions etc. are legit.

 

[sconea]

Luke…I understand just what you are speaking about. And not just with the one you mentioned…although this one is particularly bad.

I have come up against this and been unbelievably attacked…it’s scary. I have read father g’s book and it has good common sense but those benefitting would not be interested or would not think it applies to them.

It is like some kind of cult control…without a leader. You wonder what in the messages or a conference could cause such fanaticism and/or obsession.

This has even caused people to leave their religious order as in this article.

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/articles/2005/0511rk2.htm

I am beginning to suspect something diabolical about the whole thing. I have tried to just keep hammering away at the truth, hoping something will hit them just right. I have seen people give up on one apparition, movement or devotion…and then right away get involved in a different one.

There is something real wrong here…I don’t recall seeing anyone being obsessed with, say, Our Lady of Lourdes.

Prayer is obviously our weapon, but have not had success with this as yet. Good luck!
.