Addressing deacons

[otjm]

He’s in formation.

At what point does he become .75?

 

[otjm]

It should be noted that Fr Lastname is proper and respectful for a secular priest but never for a religious. A consecrated religious has taken a new name at his profession. Even before the more casual status quo of the post-VII Church, a religious priest was always Fr Religious Name (Fr John, Fr Peter, Fr Francis). Properly speaking he is first and foremost a religious with a new identity and no longer simply a Smith or a Jones. Of course secular priests are a different matter and using their last name was the traditional protocol.
A great example: Padre Pio (first name- a consecrated friar) vs Don Bosco (“Don” from the Latin for Lord is used in some romantic languages as an honorific for secular priests paired with the last name).

Maybe that is a Canadian thing; 50 years ago when I was in seminary, all of the Benedictines had chosen a name, but all of them still had last names, and while the last names were not used in speaking with them, everyone knew their last name (and where something was printed, often the last name was included).

And with a tip of the hat to OraLabora, we only had two who were addressed “Dom …”.

 

[twf]

Not all consecrated religious take on a new name. The monks of our abbey do not. You can call a monk "frère ", and a monk who is a priest "père " or "Dom ". It’s common in the Francophone world to call a priest-monk “père” though Dom is more accurate.

It sort of varies from culture to culture.

Can “Dom” be used for any monk who is also a priest?

 

[ProVobis]

A great example: Padre Pio (first name- a consecrated friar) vs Don Bosco (“Don” from the Latin for Lord is used in some romantic languages as an honorific for secular priests paired with the last name).

A small correction here. “Dominus” is the Latin for Lord or Master (of the house), therefore Dom would be the title, although I understand in some countries it is “Don.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_%28honorific%29

 

[OraLabora]

Can “Dom” be used for any monk who is also a priest?

It is at our abbey. I think I’ve heard of it being reserved for the abbot in some places, but the official title of the abbot at our abbey is: "Très révérend père Dom ". The other priest monks are addressed properly and alternately as either Dom or Père, but not both at once.

Curiosity: our abbey is of the Solesmes Congregation (France), and the monks always use the polite form when addressing each other, even a priest to a brother (“vous” instead of “tu”). They also use the polite form when addressing oblates, so we, in return, do the same, and we always call a monk either “Frère”, “Père” or “Dom” as the case may be.

I’ve been to other monasteries including some in the anglophone world, that are less formal. First of all there’s no “polite” form in English (it’s “you” regardless), but also we address them as either Br. or Fr. ". I would guess that this would refer to their name in religion should they have one different from their given name at birth. I’m working on a project with a monk based in Rome who’s originally from the US, and he found our way of doing things in the French world very curious, he never heard of monks being referred only by last name with appropriate prefix.

So it really is a cultural thing, YMMV.

 

[malphono]

I’m working on a project with a monk based in Rome who’s originally from the US, and he found our way of doing things in the French world very curious, he never heard of monks being referred only by last name with appropriate prefix.

Odd, that. I guess he never heard of Dom Guéranger.

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

Odd, that. I guess he never heard of Dom Guéranger.

Malphono, how do Syriacs address deacons?

The "Deacon " is interesting to me, since Byzantines generally use the baptismal name, not the surname, since that is the name preferably used in church settings, it seems. I would imagine Christians historically used this baptismal name at one point in all rites, since surnames have only been common in much of the world for a few centuries.

I know I have also heard Copts use the baptismal name. Though, of course, Copts and Syriacs both come from regions were surnames are of even more recent introduction than in the West.

 

[malphono]

Malphono, how do Syriacs address deacons?

The "Deacon " is interesting to me, since Byzantines generally use the baptismal name, not the surname, since that is the name preferably used in church settings, it seems. I would imagine Christians historically used this baptismal name at one point in all rites, since surnames have only been common in much of the world for a few centuries.

I know I have also heard Copts use the baptismal name. Though, of course, Copts and Syriacs both come from regions were surnames are of even more recent introduction than in the West.

The usual custom in the Middle East is “Deacon <given (baptismal or religious) name>” but in the diaspora it can vary.

The same use of given name is actually true for priests and bishops as well. The differentiation between monks and diocesan priests is in the title. And this can also vary in the diaspora.

 

[PJM]

How do you address a Latin-rite deacon? Do you just say, “Good morning, deacon?”

Is there a universal address, or does it vary but culture?

Just as you indicated; OR if you know them; just by name.

 

[AnnArbor]

I usually let them take the lead. If, when we are introduced, they call me
Ms. Lastname, then I call them Deacon or Father Lastname

If they call me Firstname, then I do likewise.

 

[twf]

It is at our abbey. I think I’ve heard of it being reserved for the abbot in some places, but the official title of the abbot at our abbey is: "Très révérend père Dom ". The other priest monks are addressed properly and alternately as either Dom or Père, but not both at once.

Curiosity: our abbey is of the Solesmes Congregation (France), and the monks always use the polite form when addressing each other, even a priest to a brother (“vous” instead of “tu”). They also use the polite form when addressing oblates, so we, in return, do the same, and we always call a monk either “Frère”, “Père” or “Dom” as the case may be.

I’ve been to other monasteries including some in the anglophone world, that are less formal. First of all there’s no “polite” form in English (it’s “you” regardless), but also we address them as either Br. or Fr. ". I would guess that this would refer to their name in religion should they have one different from their given name at birth. I’m working on a project with a monk based in Rome who’s originally from the US, and he found our way of doing things in the French world very curious, he never heard of monks being referred only by last name with appropriate prefix.

So it really is a cultural thing, YMMV.

Very interesting. From what I’ve seen, I believe the formal written style for the Abbot at the abbey in Mission, BC is “the right reverend” (which is unique within the English speaking Catholic world, to my knowledge, as bishops are “most reverend” and priests of senior rank, such as Deans or Cathedral rectors, are “very reverend”), but in conversation I’ve always heard him referred to “Father Abbot”.

 

[malphono]

Very interesting. From what I’ve seen, I believe the formal written style for the Abbot at the abbey in Mission, BC is “the right reverend” (which is unique within the English speaking Catholic world, to my knowledge, as bishops are “most reverend” and priests of senior rank, such as Deans or Cathedral rectors, are “very reverend”), but in conversation I’ve always heard him referred to “Father Abbot”.

It was customary in the anglophone world (in pre-conciliar times, at least) to refer to Protonotaries Apostolic and Domestic Prelates as “Rt Rev” and papal chamberlains (and seminary and cathedral rectors) as “Very Rev” but that (along with so very much else, but I digress) seems have fallen into abeyance. In any case, Abbots would always be addressed “Father Abbot” in personal discourse. I’ve met and spoken to a number of Abbots, but have only written to one in French so I can’t speak to the anglophone written form.

 

[OraLabora]

It was customary in the anglophone world (in pre-conciliar times, at least) to refer to Protonotaries Apostolic and Domestic Prelates as “Rt Rev” and papal chamberlains (and seminary and cathedral rectors) as “Very Rev” but that (along with so very much else, but I digress) seems have fallen into abeyance. In any case, Abbots would always be addressed “Father Abbot” in personal discourse. I’ve met and spoken to a number of Abbots, but have only written to one in French so I can’t speak to the anglophone written form.

In french we say, in conversation with an abbot “Père abbé” as in “Bonjour Père Abbé”. In writing, I would preface a letter with “Mon cher Père Abbé” as I am on personal terms with him.

 

[malphono]

In french we say, in conversation with an abbot “Père abbé” as in “Bonjour Père Abbé”. In writing, I would preface a letter with “Mon cher Père Abbé” as I am on personal terms with him.

D’accord. C’est juste. That’s exactly my experience.