Addressing the Necessity of the Catholic Faith

[RyanEAS]

Hello all! This is my first post in ANY CA Forum, so please go easy on me!
I have a friend who attends a non-denominational church. He approached me a few months back with a question about why we have to confess our sins to a priest. We agreed to open a dialogue, and we’ve been meeting for awhile now weekly for Saturday morning coffee and conversation. A little back-story here: I myself am a convert to Catholicism from my Evangelical/non-denominational upbringing. I converted back in 1997, so 20yrs now! <yay!!!>

After our most recent meeting, at the end, he said to me: “I just want you to understand, I’m closer to the Catholic Faith than you think I am… I see and understand the arguments for going to confession to a Priest, and to Praying to the Saints (2 topics we’ve dived into). Where I’m hung up on is the necessity for it.”

Like many Protestants, he is very “Bible-centric”, in that, I have to show him where it says that in the Bible. Speaking on the topic of Confession to a Priest, we have covered all the OT and NT scripture pointing the way for it. He acknowledges these verses in the way the Catholic Church interprets them. Again, he sees and understands the “why” behind what we believe as Catholics, but he doesn’t see the necessity of it, when he can just “go straight to God”.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions what I can say to persuade him?

 

[RKS89]

How does your friend view the authority of the Church? For instance, if his pastor started preaching something he disagreed with would he find another church more agreeable to him?

Authority is at the root of most issues with Protestants. As a former non-denominational and Baptist I can tell you I had a very low view of the “church”. If you can point him toward the truth that the Church isn’t just a gathering of believers but a real, teaching entity handed on to us by Our Lord and cared for by the Spirit and the episcopate that may begin to show the necessity of being a Catholic (as opposed to a Lutheran or Baptist or what have you). These things, confession and the other Sacraments, the saints, they are gifts to us to help us, not arbitrary rules we have to check off so we can say we were “good Catholics” when we die.

I forgot who said it, but you either have a Pope or you have to make yourself the pope. There’s really no in between.

 

[ratio1]

If it was me, I would admit ultimately there is no “necessity” for any of these things, just as there is no “necessity” to do Bible studies for evangelical Christians to be saved. [surely Bible study is infinite!] but an evangelical Christian would be very foolish NOT to do Bible study or even do just a little bit.
In the same way, sure a Catholic doesn’t have to ask the intercession of saints in order to remain a Catholic/Christian, but it’s just very foolish as this is such a great way to enhance praying.
To us Catholics this is a non-question because God has given us the Church which has these wonderful mechanisms to pray/confess our sins etc and our response should be: “Great! couldn’t have asked for more!” instead of “do we really have to do this?”
the analogy is someone who has given you the best birthday present ever and you ask: “oh, i know this is legitimate but is it really necessary?”

 

[Todd_Easton]

We know that God will forgive our sins apart from the sacrament of confession if our contrition is perfect but how do we know for sure that our contrition is perfect? St Paul said, “Let no one deceive himself.” (1 Cor 3:18) So, self-deception about the quality of our contrition is a real possibility and, if our contrition is not as perfect we suppose, then we would be among those mistaken people who think they are alive but are really dead in sin. (See Rev 3:1). Presumption, i.e., over-confidence in God’s mercy without the necessary conversion of heart and contrition, is also a real possibility. The sacrament of confession goes a long way to remove the problems of self-deception and presumption where the forgiveness of sins is concerned. Understanding that self-deception and presumption are possible makes availing oneself of the sacrament of confession the prudent thing to do. Better safe then sorry.

 

[Genesis315]

The “necessity” is ultimately God’s will. He could have had our sins forgiven in any way he chose, but he chose to make it a communal event ultimately for our benefit (not to mention the fact that it really makes us confront our sins). There is no such thing as an independent Christian. The goods of Christ are shared within His Body, the Church. God wants His love to spread horizontally as well as vertically. The veneration and invoking of the Saints is closely related to this. The sharing of the blessings of Christ also happens with those who have died in His friendship since we believe they live in Christ. We are strengthened in our relationship with Christ by our relationship with them just as we are strengthened in our relationship with Christ by our fellowship with other Christians on earth.

In general, the necessity of being a member of the Catholic Church is spelled out in Scripture:

We are to be baptized into the one Body in the one Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13), partake of the one bread as one Body (1 Cor. 10:17), and profess the One Lord, one faith, one Baptism (Eph 4:4-5). Like Noah’s ark, you have to be on board to be saved–as the Bible says, like Noah’s ark in the flood, Baptism now saves (1 Peter 3:20-21), and as I just said, we are baptized into that one Body–so the ark and the Body have the same significance in this regard.

Furthermore, to have fellowship or communion with Christ, you must have fellowship with those who have fellowship with Him (1 John 1:3). We are forbidden, therefore, from schisms and must be united in belief (1 Cor. 1:10).

Furthermore, while Christ is the head of the Church, He has also willed that the Church be led by men. He put St. Peter in charge of His flock (John 21:15-17)–therefore, to be a member of Christ’s flock is to be a member of the flock tended by Peter and his successors. Bishops are selected by men, but they ultimately receive authority from the Holy Spirit (Acts 20:28).

 

[cmjmevans]

Dare him to do it

 

[PJM]

As A long time Catholic Catechist [and an oldie but goodie] here on CAF, this issue has been addressed many times. BUT that isn’t going to help you now. So allow me in the limited space of this New Format to share the essentials;

Ask your friend if they are aware that Yahweh also used Priest in the process of OT sin forgiveness. I suspect that may come as a bit of a surprise?

1. introduce the topic with 1 Tim, 2:3-4 "1Tim.2:3 to 4 T"his is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [This MEANS His WAY; not what the post reformation choose to teach
2. Is a need to understand the very natures of Sin and the Verny Nature of GOD [which space will not permit here] SHARE

1 Jn 1:8-9 "[8] If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Jn 5:16-17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal

God in order to be GOD cannot not Judge all sins to be of equal consequences

1. Share this evidence of OT Priest
   Exo 28:1 "Then bring near to you Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the people of Israel, to serve me as priests – Aaron and Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abi’hu, Elea’zar and Ith’ama

Lev 5:16-18 "He shall also make restitution for what he has done amiss in the holy thing, and shall add a fifth to it and give it to the priest; and the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering, and he shall be forgiven. "If any one sins, doing any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity. He shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish out of the flock, valued by you at the price for a guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him for the error which he committed unwittingly, and he shall be forgiven.

SEE NEXT POST FOR BALANCE

 

[PJM]

BALANCE OF REPLY PRIOR POST

So what Jesus did WAS began in OT Traditions

3 Jn 20: 19-23 "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, [PENTECOST] the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

You may wish to share Mt 10:1-4 which teaches Jesus sharing Godly Powers with HIS Apostles directly, precisely and exclusively

4 Then point out to your friend that everything that is in the Bible is there BECAUSE the HS wanted it to be taught and accepted

The difference in the OT priest and the NT Priest & sin forgiveness is that in the OT BEFORE Christ Passion Death and Resurrection & grace; those sins were covered over, NOT actually forgiven by the priest; which GOD accepted before grace because of their hardhearts

Now under Grace Rom 6:14-15, Jesus sends HIS Catholic Priest with the Power and authority to actually be able to FORGIVE SINS in HIS NAME [see also Mt 16:19]

WHY? Because He desires ALL to come to the Teachings of HIS TRUTHS. What is in the bible is there because GOD wants it there, wants it known, accepted and lived so that each soul actually CAN have TRUE inner peace; not possible under the Protestant reformation inventions.

5 Jn 17: 17-20 "[Sanctify THEM in the truth; thy word is truth.
As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. LITERALLY
And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

NO OTHER CHURCH OR FAITH CAN MAKE THE CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE JESUS PERSONALLY AS THEIR WARRANTY OF TEACHING HIS TRUTHS AND PROVE IT
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word

YOU MAY WISH TO PRINT THIS

GBY
PJM

 

[omgriley]

Like many Protestants, he is very “Bible-centric”, in that, I have to show him where it says that in the Bible.

If your friend is insisting that every Christian belief must be explicitly found in Scripture, ask him to show you where in Scripture it states that. If he can’t (he can’t) then he has no reason to insist that all beliefs must be found in the Bible in order to be justified.

With that said, confession is necessary for many reasons. Firstly, Christ gave power to forgive sins to the Apostles. Therefore in order to forgive, they would necessarily need to know what those sins are.

Additionally, Confession requires the penitent to vocally and materially confront his sins. It’s much easier for us to rationalize away our sins if we’re just confessing them to God in our head. Hence, it helps us to better visualize our sins. Also, if we confess to God directly, we have no assurance of our forgiveness. Whereas in the case of confessing to God’s representative, we do have such assurance: “Your sins are forgiven.”

Also confessing sins to other humans, especially priests, helps to foster the virtue of humility.

Btw, if you ever get a chance, look up the prayer of absolution. It’s beautiful.

Hope this helps…