Adultery in Non-Catholic Circumstance

[badegine]

I’m sorry if I’ve caused any offence in anything I’ve said…without over-stepping my position, some of the responses seem to had a somewhat ‘curt’ tone to them. If I’ve said anything to warrant that, then I most sincerely apologise.

I’m just beginning my journey into the Catholic faith, and not everything is clear to me - like, for example, the Church’s view that secular marriages are valid: I simply didn’t know that before it was stated today - I’d assumed that the Church would simply view those not married within the Church as still ‘single’.

Like I say, this isn’t a personal situation I have…I’m just curious to know where the thoughts I have lead. Having so very many questions like this has made me search out somewhere like the Catholic Answers Forums - if I can find answers without bothering my Priest with all of the little ‘niggles’ that come up at obscure parts of the day, I’d feel just that little bit happier about having so many uncertainties.

Out of interest to what was raised before, in my hypothetical situation I didn’t expect sex to be involved, no - I had in mind a conventional Catholic courtship. I just didn’t know the Church’s stance on the validity of secular marriages, so wondered what would happen if a Catholic started courting a secularly-married partner - and whether this would still count as adultery. That’s now been cleared up thanks to some of the expertise of the community out there, and I’m incredibly grateful for it - as I am for the responses given to some of the ‘follow-up’ questions which came from it. I’m sorry if it seems like I’m ‘looking for loop-hole’ like one poster put it…because I probably am, truth be told. Know, however, that it comes - I feel - from a good place: I’m just interested to see how the Church deals with somehow ‘obscure’ situations. So far I’ve been incredibly impressed by how it does - and…I want to learn as much as possible about my wonderful new Mother Church now I’ve decided to become a part of it. If an ‘unwritten rule’ of being Catholic is about not asking these sorts of questions, then I’m sorry again - I haven’t recognised it yet. I’ll try my best to tone down my inquisitive nature and just accept that Rome has probably thought of answers to anything that comes up in my head.

Anyway, yes. To all who’ve given me answers and humoured me, thank you - it’s more appreciated and makes me feel more secure in all of this than you can imagine, even if they are ‘dumb’ questions. I’m also sorry to all those I’ve annoyed in equal measure: it truly has not been intentional.

 

[LilyM]

I’m sorry if I’ve caused any offence in anything I’ve said…without over-stepping my position, some of the responses seem to had a somewhat ‘curt’ tone to them. If I’ve said anything to warrant that, then I most sincerely apologise.

I’m just beginning my journey into the Catholic faith, and not everything is clear to me - like, for example, the Church’s view that secular marriages are valid: I simply didn’t know that before it was stated today - I’d assumed that the Church would simply view those not married within the Church as still ‘single’.

Like I say, this isn’t a personal situation I have…I’m just curious to know where the thoughts I have lead. Having so very many questions like this has made me search out somewhere like the Catholic Answers Forums - if I can find answers without bothering my Priest with all of the little ‘niggles’ that come up at obscure parts of the day, I’d feel just that little bit happier about having so many uncertainties.

Out of interest to what was raised before, in my hypothetical situation I didn’t expect sex to be involved, no - I had in mind a conventional Catholic courtship. I just didn’t know the Church’s stance on the validity of secular marriages, so wondered what would happen if a Catholic started courting a secularly-married partner - and whether this would still count as adultery. That’s now been cleared up thanks to some of the expertise of the community out there, and I’m incredibly grateful for it - as I am for the responses given to some of the ‘follow-up’ questions which came from it. I’m sorry if it seems like I’m ‘looking for loop-hole’ like one poster put it…because I probably am, truth be told. Know, however, that it comes - I feel - from a good place: I’m just interested to see how the Church deals with somehow ‘obscure’ situations. So far I’ve been incredibly impressed by how it does - and…I want to learn as much as possible about my wonderful new Mother Church now I’ve decided to become a part of it. If an ‘unwritten rule’ of being Catholic is about not asking these sorts of questions, then I’m sorry again - I haven’t recognised it yet. I’ll try my best to tone down my inquisitive nature and just accept that Rome has probably thought of answers to anything that comes up in my head.

Anyway, yes. To all who’ve given me answers and humoured me, thank you - it’s more appreciated and makes me feel more secure in all of this than you can imagine, even if they are ‘dumb’ questions. I’m also sorry to all those I’ve annoyed in equal measure: it truly has not been intentional.

A validly married person can no more ‘court’ or ‘date’ someone other than their spouse than they can sleep with them.

To do either is adultery - remember what Jesus said about ‘whoever looks at a woman with lust has already commited adultery with her in his heart’ and ‘whoever LEAVES his wife causes her to commit adultery …’. Clearly courting or dating another means on an emotional level you’ve ‘left’ your spouse.

Marriage vows have traditionally included the words ‘forsaking all others’, which gives an indication that even a non-physical romantic attachment to anyone other than your spouse is out of bounds.

I think the reason most people are being a bit curt is that frankly, for a vast majority of them there’s nothing at all ‘obscure’ about how to interpret such a situation at all - there’d simply be no question that it constitutes adultery.

And perhaps, being the case, they can’t see why you’d even have a question about it unless you were ‘looking for a loophole’. Perhaps we all need to be a bit more understanding of the fact that what’s obvious to us is not obvious to everyone.

 

[1ke]

I don’t think it was that you had a question, but the way you phrased it and kept implying you had a personal reason for the question (i.e. a specific someone in mind to date).

Simply asking how the Church viewed non-Catholic marriages would have not garnered the same responses you got by asking a question that seemed to be an attempt to find a way to date a married person.

And, on a tangential note, why would you EVER want to “date” a person who is currently married (in the eyes of the civil law and clearly in their OWN eyes) and willing to cheat on their spouse?

 

[badegine]

Right - okay. I’m sorry. I phrased it in the way I saw best…and that involved mention of the term ‘adultery’ and all of the other phrasiology I employed. If it - or my other questions - caused that implication, then I’m sorry.

This isn’t a personal issue, but it’s one I wanted an answer on…and I asked in the best way I knew how - in my scatter-brained and ‘typing as I think’ mentality

On your tangential note…I’m not sure. I’ve known close friends with situations that don’t seem to lend themselves to quite such a black-and-white interpretation, but I know what you’re getting at. Interesting point.

About before, though…my apologies again.

 

[SilentKnight]

…I want to learn as much as possible about my wonderful new Mother Church now I’ve decided to become a part of it. If an ‘unwritten rule’ of being Catholic is about not asking these sorts of questions, then I’m sorry again - I haven’t recognised it yet. I’ll try my best to tone down my inquisitive nature and just accept that Rome has probably thought of answers to anything that comes up in my head.

Anyway, yes. To all who’ve given me answers and humoured me, thank you - it’s more appreciated and makes me feel more secure in all of this than you can imagine, even if they are ‘dumb’ questions. I’m also sorry to all those I’ve annoyed in equal measure: it truly has not been intentional.

Bade,

The Catechism of the Catholic Church tells us that “faith seeks understanding”. Nothing wrong with being inquisitive. In fact, how else are you going to grow in your faith and be able to articulate it to others if you never ask any questions?

Please be advised that the forums here (and just about everywhere else) play host to just about every type of enquirer under the sun, from the mentally ill to the very sincere and very ignorant to the higly educated to the highly bigoted. Thus, I can assure you that no matter how well intended you are, you will inevitably come across responses that do not recognize this. This will either be because the reponder is a very unhappy camper in general, or simply because they are a great and holy person, but misunderstand your intentions either because the manner in which you have asked your questions and/or because of previous experiences here in which someone else who asked similar questions had “less than noble” intentions themselves.

So…In other words…Kick back, relax, ask all the sincere questions you’d like (phrase them as “carefully” as you can ) and then take the gruff responses with a grain of salt. Don’t worry about them.

May God bless you and keep you as you journey Rome - er, Home.



SK

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

The assumption seems to be that someone is trying to justify a liaison with a married woman. Why that assumption? Seems unwarranted by the evidence at hand. Explain please.

Explain to me how any Christian, non-Catholic or not could actually have to question whether or not a person can date a married person, have a relationhip with a married person knowing full well that the person is married. Even a cursory reading of Scriptures tells the story.

No need to search through the forum pages to get a Catholic opinion. The universal Christian stance says that it is wrong. The only “evidence” I can see is a thoughtless question that would occur from a sinful mind who knows what is wrong, but seeks a loophole.

You can take away whatever you want, but me and some other posters see how ridiculous the question is.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I used to say there were no dumb questions, but I may have to revise my opinion.

Having sex outside marriage is a sin.
When two unmarried people do it, it is called fornication.
When one of the parties is married to someone else, it is called adultery.

what part of “no sex outside marriage” could you not find when you did your search?

ditto! My thoughts exactly. Pretty cut and dried I would think.

 

[badegine]

Okay - I see the confusion, I think.

My question really boiled down to this: does the Catholic Church see secular marriages as still ‘valid’, or does it - as I’d wrongly assumed - see the participants to merely be living closely together in sin and remaining single? If this had been the case, then I didn’t see why adultery would have been committed…one of the partners might have had ‘pre-marital’ relations with a civil long-term partner, but - aside from that - they would have been just as single as anyone else.

I was evidently wrong in my assumptions, but…they were genuinely held mistakes. I tried to add all of the things about adultery because that was the way the question was spun in my head after the RCIA session - but I’m sorry for clouding everything with it.

If it’s still a dumb question, then I’m really sorry - like I say…I’m new to this, am in no way looking for a loop-hole other than having an inquisitve mind, and just came here to bounce some ideas around - not to give anyone the wrong impression or to offend anyone.

To all those that have provided reassurance, thank you: it means a lot.

 

[rpp]

The Church presumes all marriages to be valid. However, if the marriage took place outside the Catholic Church, it may no be sacramental.

I think you may be unaware of the difference between valid and sacramental. Marriage is a sacrament. Many sacraments can be incorrectly done.

Let’s look at a parallel example.

A priest may (accidentally or otherwise) flub some prayer or commit some abuse while saying Mass. Most of these things may make the Mass illicit, however, the bread and wine are still changed and the Sacrament of Holy Communion is valid. On the other hand, if Sister Mary Wannabe tries to say the Mass and confect Holy Communion, that is both illicit *and *invalid. The bread and wine remain bread and wine.

Only the diocesan tribunal can make the determination if a marriage is valid or not. And even then, it can only investigate it after a civil divorce is final and only when one of the spouses petition for a decree of nullity.

Until the tribunal determines that a marriage, which has already ended in divorce, is null, it is presumed valid. If either of the former spouses enter into a romantic relationship, it is adultery.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Okay - I see the confusion, I think.

My question really boiled down to this: does the Catholic Church see secular marriages as still ‘valid’, or does it - as I’d wrongly assumed - see the participants to merely be living closely together in sin and remaining single? If this had been the case, then I didn’t see why adultery would have been committed…one of the partners might have had ‘pre-marital’ relations with a civil long-term partner, but - aside from that - they would have been just as single as anyone else.

I was evidently wrong in my assumptions, but…they were genuinely held mistakes. I tried to add all of the things about adultery because that was the way the question was spun in my head after the RCIA session - but I’m sorry for clouding everything with it.

If it’s still a dumb question, then I’m really sorry - like I say…I’m new to this, am in no way looking for a loop-hole other than having an inquisitve mind, and just came here to bounce some ideas around - not to give anyone the wrong impression or to offend anyone.

To all those that have provided reassurance, thank you: it means a lot.

Badegine,

Now that I read your first paragraph I see that this would have been a better question than the original one. I mean no disrespect. When I saw the original post I was confused as to why someone would ask that kind of question unless they were looking for a loophole.

I’m painfully aware of how my own posts cause confusion among posters, so I’m with you I suppose. We can all do this at times. So, keep posting.

Peace…

MW