Advice on RCIA candidate

[awfulthings9]

My brother just went to confession Saturday for the first time since first reconcilliation (he’s 26 now). His fiance also went (she is my RCIA candidate).

Then … they missed Sunday Mass.

I was about to explain that they now have to go to confession again. However, the reason they missed (which I figured out before they told me) is that they were up, getting ready for 10:00 Mass and realized they never did “spring forward”. They didn’t realize this until what would have been 10:30 on regular-people time, so they figured they had missed.

Now, the problem is that there was an 11:30 Mass at our Church and one nearer to them. They are both somewhat naive and “didn’t think” to check into that.

So … my problem is that I don’t know whether to stress going back to reconcilliation (especially since I’m a sponsor) or to mark it up to ignorace (not a mortal sin because it lacked full knowledge). They did lack full knowledge, but didn’t really do everything possible to remedy that. My brother was a tough sell in the first place on reconcilliation and I don’t want to give him the impression the Church is so nit-picky that he drifts from it again.

My solution: Explain to them that, under normal circumstances, to miss a Mass is mortal sin and explain that they have every obligation to find out where and when a Mass if offered should a situation occur like this again, but given the unique situation (especially since they were up and had every intention to go) to leave discernment on this situation up to them and God (but suggest that reconcilliation is always available should she want to “be sure”). Advice? Am I setting a bad example here?

 

[Orionthehunter]

awfulthings9:

My brother just went to confession Saturday for the first time since first reconcilliation (he’s 26 now). His fiance also went (she is my RCIA candidate).

Then … they missed Sunday Mass.

I was about to explain that they now have to go to confession again. However, the reason they missed (which I figured out before they told me) is that they were up, getting ready for 10:00 Mass and realized they never did “spring forward”. They didn’t realize this until what would have been 10:30 on regular-people time, so they figured they had missed.

Now, the problem is that there was an 11:30 Mass at our Church and one nearer to them. They are both somewhat naive and “didn’t think” to check into that.

So … my problem is that I don’t know whether to stress going back to reconcilliation (especially since I’m a sponsor) or to mark it up to ignorace (not a mortal sin because it lacked full knowledge). They did lack full knowledge, but didn’t really do everything possible to remedy that. My brother was a tough sell in the first place on reconcilliation and I don’t want to give him the impression the Church is so nit-picky that he drifts from it again.

My solution: Explain to them that, under normal circumstances, to miss a Mass is mortal sin and explain that they have every obligation to find out where and when a Mass if offered should a situation occur like this again, but given the unique situation (especially since they were up and had every intention to go) to leave discernment on this situation up to them and God (but suggest that reconcilliation is always available should she want to “be sure”). Advice? Am I setting a bad example here?

Not to be nit picky myself, but to miss Mass is a grave matter. The test of whether or not it was a sin includes intent and knowledge. Based on what you said, they had no intent so there is no sin.

But, you need to give them knowledge of the gravity (they are new to the Church again) and the knowledge that the Church stress attendance more than it being their parish so when they have conflicts or problems like this in the future, they are to do what they can to rectify the situation by making another Mass, even if it is at another parish or watching it on EWTN.

No sin, no obligation to confess it. At the same time, maybe they Ooops-ed and then used it as an excuse. Your gentle explanation w/o recrimination or admonishment might also open them up to examining their conscience. They will know if they need to confess it.

 

[FCEGM]

Just to add a bit to what Orion has said: From the way you have described the situation that brought them to miss the Mass they usually attend, it sounds as though they are co-habitating. If this is the case, perhaps it has already been addressed in your brother’s recent confession, but if not, that is also something that he should be brought to his conscience.

 

[RyanL]

awfulthings9:

Am I setting a bad example here?

I don’t think so. That’s pretty much what I would do if I were in your shoes.

You might consider taking this as a teaching opportunity, offering instruction as to the three elements which are required to make a sin mortal. You might also relay some valid reasons for missing mass, and let them know that they can always talk to a priest (either for reconcilliation or to get permission to miss mass if they know they can’t go). Oh, and you might provide them a link to find out where and when mass is being offered: perhaps ourcatholicfaith.org/frames/masstimes.html (scroll down to “Church look-ups”.

Just my two cents.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[RyanL]

Orionthehunter:

…they can to rectify the situation by making another Mass, even if it is at another parish or watching it on EWTN.

To nit-pick the nit-picky, TV mass doesn’t count for your Holy Day obligation - you have to be present. That said, it’s still a great practice if you can’t physically be there.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Brian_C]

Lol, our director of RCIA (who’s also a deacon) walked into Breaking Open the Word with his tie draped around his neck and shirt untucked, thinking he was coming in to set the room up.

It’s a bit of a tangent but even the best of them forget to spring forward sometimes.

 

[awfulthings9]

I’ve addressed the co-habitation thing (almost didn’t sponsor because of it). They know it is inmoral. There is another co-habitating couple in RCIA who are living as brother and sister for financial reasons. I know this to be true in their case because I’ve been helping them to learn about NFP (they had a child when they were “knowing” each other and have sworn off sex until marriage, but for financial reasons, haven’t been able to move to separate locations). For my brother and his fiance, I’ve informed them of the problem and I know that the priest has discussed it with them. The fiance has indicated to me that they are living as brother and sister, too. Frankly, I don’t believe her, but as I’ve informed them and Father has discussed it with them, I have to leave the issue of honest between them and God at this point.

It’s interesting. I’ve mentioned that they’re naive. Both her parents and ours (my brother’s) cohabitate and encouraged them to. I really don’t think that, before I mentioned it, she knew there was anything wrong with it. My brother, knowing how orthodox I am, even called to ask my advice on the decision, and I gave the advice you would expect. But she was so oblivious that she even went to the priest (a young guy and my best friend) to tell him about the house they’d just bought because she was so proud of it. His response, “Um … we have to talk.”

Anyway, needless to say, I’m really concerned for them, but I’m just trying to get them into the church and hope that the grace of the sacraments can work where my simple logic and guidance cannot.

 

[awfulthings9]

Orionthehunter:

Not to be nit picky myself, but to miss Mass is a grave matter.

Oh, I know. I didn’t mean to imply it wasn’t. I meant that, if it truly was a mistake and not intentional, then he would think the Church was nit-picky and “legalistic” (though he wouldn’t have used that term). I fully intend to have a discussion about the three criteria for a mortal sin and emphasize that missing Mass would generally fall into that category (barring extreme sickness or something such as that).

It’s been a real uphill battle. We were raised by a parent who, herself, never goes to Mass and is part of the “I’m a good person, so I’ll go to Heaven” crowd. He’s very secular minded and doesn’t typically think past the here and now. As I put in the last post, I can only hope that God’s grace works a major conversion and try my best until then.

 

[Mickey]

awfulthings9:

My brother just went to confession Saturday for the first time since first reconcilliation (he’s 26 now). His fiance also went (she is my RCIA candidate).

Then … they missed Sunday Mass.

I was about to explain that they now have to go to confession again. However, the reason they missed (which I figured out before they told me) is that they were up, getting ready for 10:00 Mass and realized they never did “spring forward”. They didn’t realize this until what would have been 10:30 on regular-people time, so they figured they had missed.

Now, the problem is that there was an 11:30 Mass at our Church and one nearer to them. They are both somewhat naive and “didn’t think” to check into that.

So … my problem is that I don’t know whether to stress going back to reconcilliation (especially since I’m a sponsor) or to mark it up to ignorace (not a mortal sin because it lacked full knowledge). They did lack full knowledge, but didn’t really do everything possible to remedy that. My brother was a tough sell in the first place on reconcilliation and I don’t want to give him the impression the Church is so nit-picky that he drifts from it again.

My solution: Explain to them that, under normal circumstances, to miss a Mass is mortal sin and explain that they have every obligation to find out where and when a Mass if offered should a situation occur like this again, but given the unique situation (especially since they were up and had every intention to go) to leave discernment on this situation up to them and God (but suggest that reconcilliation is always available should she want to “be sure”). Advice? Am I setting a bad example here?

I think you are on the right track. Explain things to them as gently, lovingly, and charitably as possible.

BTW, the same thing happened to me and my wife! I forgot to spring forward and we did not have the time to make it to the Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy which begins at 9:30am. However, we attended the 11:00am mass at a nearby Roman Catholic Church. There are many options when you are Catholic!

 

[rwoehmke]

awfulthings9:

I fully intend to have a discussion about the three criteria for a mortal sin and emphasize that missing Mass would generally fall into that category (barring extreme sickness or something such as that).

How extreme are you thinking. Many of today’s people who have been having chemo or radiation have compromised immune systems. Also almost everyone is susceptioble to colds and flu. It has always bothered me that people with a cold or flu have no compunction about going to work and about in public passing it on to others. If you are sick with anything contagious stay away from Mass and do us all a favor. I doubt that misssing Mass for this reason would be a mortal sin. Your cold may seem mild to you, but does not always turn out to be mild for those you pass it on to. Common sense is just as applicable to many moral decisions as to other occasions.

 

[Orionthehunter]

rwoehmke:

How extreme are you thinking. Many of today’s people who have been having chemo or radiation have compromised immune systems. Also almost everyone is susceptioble to colds and flu. It has always bothered me that people with a cold or flu have no compunction about going to work and about in public passing it on to others. If you are sick with anything contagious stay away from Mass and do us all a favor. I doubt that misssing Mass for this reason would be a mortal sin. Your cold may seem mild to you, but does not always turn out to be mild for those you pass it on to. Common sense is just as applicable to many moral decisions as to other occasions.

If you miss Mass out of an act of charity (don’t want to spread your sickness), your intent was not sinful and no sin occurred. In this situation, one is called to fulfill their Sunday obligation in an hour of prayer, worship and adoration. Watching the Mass on TV can also allow one to participate spiritually in the Sacrifice as well as gain the Teachings contained in the Liturgy of the Word/Homily.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Well - thank-you for posting this. I am relieved to know I was not the only one who missed Mass because of that! I showed up for Mass, there was singing, people were leaving, and there I was scratching my head wondering what was going on! LOL.

Unfortunately, I had RCIA class immediately afterword and couldn’t attend Mass at all.

I will be Praying for you and yours through these difficulties. God will have His way in the end, of that you can be sure.

Peace

John

 

[awfulthings9]

rwoehmke:

How extreme are you thinking. Many of today’s people who have been having chemo or radiation have compromised immune systems. Also almost everyone is susceptioble to colds and flu. It has always bothered me that people with a cold or flu have no compunction about going to work and about in public passing it on to others. If you are sick with anything contagious stay away from Mass and do us all a favor. I doubt that misssing Mass for this reason would be a mortal sin. Your cold may seem mild to you, but does not always turn out to be mild for those you pass it on to. Common sense is just as applicable to many moral decisions as to other occasions.

I kind of agree with you. On the other hand, while we do have an obligation to attend Mass, we don’t have an obligation to shake hands during the sign of peace or receive Eucharist or wine, the things which would typically spread that illness. As long as one covers his/her mouth when sneezing or coughing, I’m not sure a cold is reason to stay home. Flu - perhaps.

 

[Orionthehunter]

awfulthings9:

I kind of agree with you. On the other hand, while we do have an obligation to attend Mass, we don’t have an obligation to shake hands during the sign of peace or receive Eucharist or wine, the things which would typically spread that illness. As long as one covers his/her mouth when sneezing or coughing, I’m not sure a cold is reason to stay home. Flu - perhaps.

If I long to go to Mass but I charitably deny myself the Mass out of concern of my fellow faithful, there is no sin. If I don’t feel like going to Mass and I use a cold as an excuse, there is sin. It is all in our intent- and we might try to fool others or ourself but we can’t fool God.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

awfulthings9:

My brother just went to confession Saturday for the first time since first reconcilliation (he’s 26 now). His fiance also went (she is my RCIA candidate).

Then … they missed Sunday Mass.

I was about to explain that they now have to go to confession again. However, the reason they missed (which I figured out before they told me) is that they were up, getting ready for 10:00 Mass and realized they never did “spring forward”. They didn’t realize this until what would have been 10:30 on regular-people time, so they figured they had missed.

Now, the problem is that there was an 11:30 Mass at our Church and one nearer to them. They are both somewhat naive and “didn’t think” to check into that.

So … my problem is that I don’t know whether to stress going back to reconcilliation (especially since I’m a sponsor) or to mark it up to ignorace (not a mortal sin because it lacked full knowledge). They did lack full knowledge, but didn’t really do everything possible to remedy that. My brother was a tough sell in the first place on reconcilliation and I don’t want to give him the impression the Church is so nit-picky that he drifts from it again.

My solution: Explain to them that, under normal circumstances, to miss a Mass is mortal sin and explain that they have every obligation to find out where and when a Mass if offered should a situation occur like this again, but given the unique situation (especially since they were up and had every intention to go) to leave discernment on this situation up to them and God (but suggest that reconcilliation is always available should she want to “be sure”). Advice? Am I setting a bad example here?

I think your solution is acceptable at this time.

 

[awfulthings9]

Orionthehunter:

If I long to go to Mass but I charitably deny myself the Mass out of concern of my fellow faithful, there is no sin. If I don’t feel like going to Mass and I use a cold as an excuse, there is sin. It is all in our intent- and we might try to fool others or ourself but we can’t fool God.

Yeah, I guess. Knowing that colds can generally be prevented from spreading with proper hygiene and etiquette, and knowing there are Masses available at odd times where people are spread out pretty thinly, I’m not sure I buy it as an excuse for myself. I’ll concede, though.

 

[rwoehmke]

awfulthings9:

I kind of agree with you. On the other hand, while we do have an obligation to attend Mass, we don’t have an obligation to shake hands during the sign of peace or receive Eucharist or wine, the things which would typically spread that illness. As long as one covers his/her mouth when sneezing or coughing, I’m not sure a cold is reason to stay home. Flu - perhaps.

Common cold virus amd influenza viruses live on for a time on door handles, hymnals, the back of pews etc. That was why we were taught to wash our hands thoroughly in school. Touch a door knob, get virus on your fingers, touch your eye or mouth and the possibility of transmission is there. It is not only toilet seats that carry “germs”. Fortunately ordinary skin is a good barrier to many infections but the tissue of lips, mouth, eyes, inside the nose are very good at passing germs and viruses into the body. Try sometime in church to never touch your nose, mouth, or eyes for a whole hour. Isn’t easy. If you have a transmittable disease, please stay home. Share some other time.