Advice on Taking a Practical Catholic Philosophical Stand Against Homosexuality

  • Thread starter Thread starter C_Bautista
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

C_Bautista

Guest
This is my second year in college, and it’s come to my attention that - more than ever before, it seems - homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted among my peers. When discussing the issue with a friend, we even jokingly decided that “Everyone’s gay these days!”

I strive to maintain total charity and friendliness, but, if the occasion arises, I need some practical advice on how to oppose (within the context of a casual and brief “debate,” of sorts) the homosexual lifestyle without diving deep into philosophy or theology and while maintaining a friendly, if firm, attitude.

I, myself, have no problem understanding the Church’s position and have studied it thoroughly, but how am I to communicate this to a non-Catholic, non-Christian, or even an atheist? Basically, what’s a good way to go about explaining the Catholic position on homosexuality (particularly gay marriage, perhaps) by means of simple ideas and philosophy that don’t require specifically philosophical/theological Catholic concepts as prerequisites?

I realize this is probably not an easy thing to do, but any help would be wonderful. I’m catching friction from “Catholics” and atheists alike for vocally opposing homosexual marriage; not to say that I START fights about it, just that I do not hesitate to vocalize my beliefs to someone if the issue comes up.

Thanks in advance!

-Christian
 
By voicing your opinion, you will frequently cause debate.

The only thing that I have found that can stifle any debate, but still state my beliefs, is a simple,

“I disagree”

This obviously only works when the other person first starts the discussion, but it allows you to firmly state your opinion without delving into anything:)

It takes practice to not get drawn into further debate (I disagree, I disagree, I disagree, use it over and over!), but it does get your opinion across quite firmly.
 
Avoid starting things off with the “d” word (disordered) as it tends to make people angry and no matter what you say after that, you’re still a hate monger who leaves gay people beaten on fences to die. I think the above poster is right in saying simply and firmly that you disagree. If they ask you why, ask why they think same sex relations are good. When you have a specific point to address, you can dialogue more effectively with your audience. Some things they might say are, “It’s not hurting anyone,” “You should be allowed to love who you want,” and similar stuff.
It’s important to be consistent. If you aren’t against contraception, it’s hard to make the case that marital unions should be open to life. If you’ve already screwed that up, you can always fall back on the complementarity of two sexes that a sterile heterosexual couple could provide for an adopted child that two men or women couldn’t.
Incidentally, i admire the heck out of you for speaking up. I’ve probably got some major apologizing to do to Christ for my cowardice. 😦
 
I can’t possibly claim to always have stood up for my beliefs, but then again I can’t claim to have maintained total charity and calmness on the occasions that I did engage in debate on the matter.

As far as being consistent, I’m as in-line with the Church’s teachings to the greatest extent as I can see possible (of course, I mean to say that my philosophies are consistent with the Church’s teachings and philosophies, just in case it sounds like I’m saying that I’ve never done anything out of line with Christ’s teachings). Therefore, I don’t think I’ll have a problem with contraception issues and such on a philosophical/debate level.

I guess I’m really just looking for some straightforward ideas that I can throw out to a non-Catholic without sounding convoluted or confusing. Something that they can understand and will sit and listen to.

I like the idea of trying to p(name removed by moderator)oint a certain issue, that would make it much more manageable. Often the problem I run into in live debate is that the other person never wants to stay on one specific issue… sort of difficult to address homosexuality, abortion, capital punishment, contraception, general morality, and euthanasia all in one short conversation. :rolleyes:
 
If someone doesn’t first believe in God, getting him to change his stand on homosexuality should be among the least of your concerns.
 
C_Bautista said:
This is my second year in college, and it’s come to my attention that - more than ever before, it seems - homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted among my peers. When discussing the issue with a friend, we even jokingly decided that “Everyone’s gay these days!”

I strive to maintain total charity and friendliness, but, if the occasion arises, I need some practical advice on how to oppose (within the context of a casual and brief “debate,” of sorts) the homosexual lifestyle without diving deep into philosophy or theology and while maintaining a friendly, if firm, attitude.

I, myself, have no problem understanding the Church’s position and have studied it thoroughly, but how am I to communicate this to a non-Catholic, non-Christian, or even an atheist? Basically, what’s a good way to go about explaining the Catholic position on homosexuality (particularly gay marriage, perhaps) by means of simple ideas and philosophy that don’t require specifically philosophical/theological Catholic concepts as prerequisites?

I realize this is probably not an easy thing to do, but any help would be wonderful. I’m catching friction from “Catholics” and atheists alike for vocally opposing homosexual marriage; not to say that I START fights about it, just that I do not hesitate to vocalize my beliefs to someone if the issue comes up.

Thanks in advance!

-Christian
Click to expand...
I would suggest reading a short book entitled “Male and Female He Made them” by Mary Jo Anderson and Robin Burnhoff. This book is short and is an easy read and is set up in a question and answer format - by the end of it, you have virtually every question answered regarding homosexuality, gay marriage, and the possible origins of homosexuality. There are tons of references.
 
Good question.

First, don’t get drawn into a simplistic and may I charitably say “ignorant” discussion about homosexuality i.e. “Well, you’ve got your opinion and I’ve got mine”. That’s one that simply isn’t worth the time to get into. In that type of situation, disagreeing, you take a position but really don’t have to defend it.

If then, you are asked to defend your position, you can go from the obvious social and physical difficulties (although be prepared for resistance to the social aspects) and progress through the theological if necessary.

One thing to avoid is to put it as “Because the Church says so”, without giving reasons. Then it becomes a matter of what you believe is equal to what they don’t believe, and you get nowhere.

So, homosexuality is not good socially (Mom-Dad-Kids is a thousands-of-years-old proven best unit for society), homosexual relations are (at least) physically harmful, even aside from STDs/HIV, Christian and specifically Catholic marriage is defined as between a man and a woman…there’s no debate here, it is what it is.

“Civil unions”, Civil “marriage”, etc. are not the same as sacramental marriage, as defined by the Church. Whether or not they agree or not is immaterial; that is how it is defined in Catholic theology.

Kudos for not backing down and being “PC”. 👍 I do the same, and it’s not easy. You end up getting tagged as homophobic, bigoted, etc. etc. etc.

Jesus never said it would be easy…😉
 
C_Bautista said:
I strive to maintain total charity and friendliness, but, if the occasion arises, I need some practical advice on how to oppose (within the context of a casual and brief “debate,” of sorts) the homosexual lifestyle without diving deep into philosophy or theology and while maintaining a friendly, if firm, attitude.
Click to expand...
Take the same approach I take to golf – I know there are some people who do it, but for the life of me, I can’t figure out why.😃
 
For reasons I don’t entirely understand, I frequent a chat room that has a good population of athesists, agnotics, nothingists, Pagans, Buddhists and liberal Christians. I think there’s maybe a half dozen of us out of about forty that are openly conservative Christian. I love debating politics, what the room is about, with this group of people and I feel like they are “friends without faces.” However, the obvious conflict arises and I get called ignorant for my feelings on homosexuality, abortion, etc. Oddly enough, I think the fact that I don’t back down on my beliefs has made the others in the chat respect me more even if they think I’m nuts.

I think it’s important to not let them hook you into a smear campagian, which they will most certainly do on this sticky topic. I generally say that I do not have a problem with homosexuals as people, I’ve known some very good people who also happened to be gay, but I do not agree with their actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin. That’s something you need to stress to get through the argument in one piece: you aren’t against them as PEOPLE, you are against their PRACTICES.

And in then end remember that at the end of the day, it’s God you face with your actions, not these people.

I’d also like to add that I like talking to people with different beliefs because alot of times having your beliefs challenged makes you examine them closer and quite often offers new validation.
 
One result has been blatant promiscuity among homosexuals.A 1978 study reported that 75 percent of male homosexuals had been with 100 or more partners; 28 percent, the largest subcategory, reported more than 1,000 partners; 79 percent said more than half their partners were strangers; and 79 percent said more than half their partners were men with whom they had sex only once.31

The medical dangers of homosexuality are also underemphasized. Its devotees show much higher rates of sexually transmitted disease, substance abuse, and mental illness. 26 While they comprise only about 2 percent of the population, homosexuals represented 21 percent of hepatitisB cases in 1988,35 and 44 percent of new human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) cases between 2000 and 2003.36
They contract syphilis at a rate three to four times higher than non-homosexuals. Anal intercourse causes hemorrhoids, anal fissures, anorectal trauma, and retained foreign bodies, and creates high risk for anal cancer. Among male homosexuals engaging in oral-to-anal contact, an extremely high rate of parasitic and other intestinal infections exists.38

Homosexuality is also associated with higher mortality .A major Canadian medical center found the life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men was 8 to 20 years less than that for all men. It further estimated that nearly h
Click to expand...
BennieP, I lifted this from your link because I think it is a much overlooked and dimissed key element in the confusion regarding homosexual behavior.

I would also like to point out the most recent scandal involving a certain Senator and a public men’s room. This is a very common occurrence among male homosexuals, as should be clear to most aware Americans now that this story has been so thoroughly analyzed. In addition, the Mayor of Fr. Lauderdale, Florida has been under-fire by “gay rights” activists because he has been trying to clean up his city parks from the practice of public sex among homosexual men.
 
I very much admire the intent of your search. As I see it you are eager to both conitnue your friendship with your collegues and inform them as to the substance of your disagreement. I find myself in this situation often.

I wish I had better advice than these few words of encouragement and the following.

Regardless of the topic, I have often found it useful to encourage my “opponant” to first state what thier beliefs are and then to coax out of them why they believe them. It is truly amazing to me how many people cannot do these two things despite how strongly held thier “beliefs” are. Several years ago, I was engaged in a debate about the death penaly with my brother in law. He called himself a “pro-life” catholic and yet ignored the fact that George Bush was pro-capital punishment. Our discussion lasted for several years, with very little (name removed by moderator)ut from me other than what the church teaches in the catechism. His views have changed although he’s never admitted this. And his ability to vote for “pro-life” republicans has become quite complicated.

At this point you have accomplished an important thing in the debate. You’ve got them thinking. From there charity and patience are all I have to offer.

Peace
 
This may be a phenominology approach in philosophy but I’m not a philosopher so I wouldn’t know the difference if it wasn’t. What I like to say is that attraction should not be the primary force in a sound relationship. You could say that same sex attraction is about surface attraction and is superficial. Real relationships are based in love which does not depend upon attraction. In fact, a homosexual husband has more of an opportunity to show true self-giving love to his wife because he doesn’t have the obstacle of selfish attraction to get in the way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top