Advice: where to move my family?

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SwingCorey

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My wife and I are considering leaving the country. Too many things have happened in our new President’s first 50 days (not to mention the increasing replacement of capitalism with socialism) that we believe our country is not what it once was, nor will it be again for a long time. In fact, we feel that the great disregard for morality in the U.S.A. means that God’s providential protection is being removed, politically, militarily, economically, and socially. We don’t only have these concerns for ourselves: we have 2 daughters (2 and 4 years old) that we need to keep protected from whatever evil may befall this country.

I know I probably sound like a nut, but we have been thinking about this for quite some time, and the recent decision to federally fund embryonic stem cell research, coupled with the recision of the Mexico City Policy, has accelerated our thinking to this point. In light of the recent talk of overhauling the U.S. healthcare system (which could potentially force Catholic hospitals to administer birth control and perform abortions), we feel the time has come to leave. Neither of us want to be compelled to pay higher taxes to fund immoral, unethical social agenda.

My request for advice is this: where should we go? So far, we’ve looked at Malta and Chile. Unfortunately, Chile has (in the past 4 years) started handing out RU-486 in their hospitals (even though surgical abortion is still illegal). Still, it is the most economically and politically stable country in South America. As for Malta, my wife and I could never be citizens, and my daughters would only be citizens by marrying a Maltese citizen. Plus, they have a large influx of other refugees (mostly from North Africa seeking to flee Islamic oppression), which has been driving up their unemployment rate and forcing them to enact protectionist work policies.

Do you know of any other places on the globe that are strongly Catholic, have strong laws prohibiting abortion, and also have a (relatively) stable economy and government?
 
Good luck with that. I can’t think of a single place that matches your description.

What about the Phillipines?
 
LOL, I can’t believe someone is actually doing this. When Obama was elected, I half-jokingly told someone I was so scared to stay in this country that I wanted to move. She told me that although she wasn’t considering it, her parents were. They had picked Costa Rica as the place they wanted to go.

I thought it would be good for me too, but I just can’t afford moving. So I have to put up with what we’ve got.

It’s weird though. In the past, I’ve heard self proclaimed “patriots” say to others who were unsatisfied with the way our country is headed “if you don’t like it, move somewhere else.” Fine. But what we will probably see is being criticized when people actually up and* do *move.

You just can’t win for losing! 😦
 
On that note, we can always band together and buy some island somewhere. ;):heaven:
 
Brazil is probably your best choice. Even if your daughters get raped they still won’t be allowed to have abortions.

Bravo on your decision to move. It’s a shame that more of your fellow Catholics lack the courage to uphold their morality.
 
Really? We sometimes talk about how nice it must be in the States where so much is going on in terms of Catholicism.
We went to the annual pro-life march in Berlin last year. About 1000 people showed up. In Denmark we currently for the first time have 40 Days for Life. So far one person showed up. She is standing outside of a hospital. Everyone calls her a nutcase. It takes a lot of courage to do that in a country like this.
Personally I think that things could get worse everywhere before they get better.
Hugs a
 
I think that whatever country you choose, it’s not going to stay static. Latin America, although having a high percentage of Catholics, is slowly changing. Protestantism is spreading. So even if you were to go to Brazil or any other strongly Catholic country, who knows what the scenario will be in 10 years.

Change is always inevitable. Sometimes more rapid and drastic than we would like.
 
I did a little research and found some countries with the most restrictive (:o) abortion laws.

Antigua - Allowed only in the first trimester if the mother’s life is in danger
El Salvador - not allowed
Egypt - Only if the mom’s life is in danger and then only for restricted cases
Guatemala - only if the mother’s life is in danger
Honduras - same as Egypt
Jamaica - Very restrictive but is allowable if the mother’s life, physical or mental health is in jeparody
Luxembourg - Very restrictive but allowable if the mother’s life is at risk, the baby is a product of rape has a major health issue or if the mother isn’t able to provide an acceptable standard of life for the child…
(I don’t know what kind of critera needs to be met to have an abortion…the website I found only stated that it was very difficult to get permission for those countries where abortion is restricted)
Solomon Islands - only if the mother’s life is in jeparody
San Marino - if mom’s life is in jeparody
Portugal - Pretty much acceptable but only up to the first trimester (not that that’s any better)
Paraguay- If mom’s life is in danger
Nicaragua - not allowed
Monaco - If mom’s life is in danger
I forgot Ireland - if mom’s life is in danger.

There were all laws as of 2007… Maybe this helps you guys out? Also Vatican City was on the list- NOT ALLOWED 👍 I don’t know if it’s possible to own realestate there lol! But maybe you can get as close to there as possible, somewhere in Rome perhaps.

oh and there were also countries in the middle east and africa that I left out because of turmoil, mostly religious.

Now I will end this incredibly long winded email,
 
Your dilemma is shared by most of us, I’m sure! My husband and I are new parents (our son just turned 7 months old!) and we are always discussing how we want to raise him and, God willing, our future brood. I’m already looking into school options. Being a parent must be the toughest job out there, but, it seems, in this country, it has become even tougher since we now have to raise families in an ever growing pagan culture. I don’t know if fleeing the country to settle down elsewhere will offer you a permanent solution. As other posters have pointed out, governments, peoples, and places change.

It is interesting, though, how polarized our country is in regards to culture and society. Honestly, I wonder if our Union can stand up forever when our beliefs are THAT DIFFERENT…
 
No, Snerticus, I haven’t. After posting, I’ll look for it. We would love to send them to Catholic school, but right now, we’re not sure we’ll have the finances for it. In that case, if the public schools in the area we live are “liberal” and down right satanic, we’ll definitely consider homeschooling. My husband is weary about homeschooling, though, since he had a bad personal experience being homeschooled…
 
Other than the Vatican, I can’t really think of a better place to live.

And a lay family can’t live in the Vatican ( I imagine), so that’s that.
 
I don’t think you are going to find a perfect place (or even perfect enough). Besides, we are called to be witnesses to the world. I cant think of anyone who became a saint by fleeing from persecution/trouble.

In fact, I just read this today on the forums and I think its worth re-sharing:

In Christ’s human life, there were always a few who made up for the
neglect of the crowd. The shepherds did it; their hurrying to the crib
atoned for the people who would flee from Christ. The wise men did it;
their journey across the world made up for those who refused to stir one
hand’s breadth from the routine of their lives to go to Christ. The
women at the foot of the Cross did it to, making up for the crowd who
stood by and sneered.

We can do it too, exactly as they did. We are not born too late. We do
it by seeing Christ and serving Christ in friends and strangers, in
everyone we come in contact with. ~ Dorothy Day ~

In other words, I think you should stay and fight the good fight with the rest of us!
-mike
 
Here is another thread on the same topic:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=217037

Short answer: Don’t move. Most countries will be less “Catholic” than where you’re living right now. There are countries that are more “Catholic”, but they tend to be closed societies that do not easily assimilate outsiders. In these countries, you’ll end up hanging out with the expatriate community, which tends to be very liberal.

Snerticus: If the expat scene in Costa Rica is anywhere like it is elsewhere in Latin America, their friends will probably end up being 90% Democrat. Good luck to your friends parents…
 
I have a better idea… than moving that is. Why don’t you stay? Why don’t you join up with millions of other Catholics and like minded faithful and stand up to your government? You live in a democratic country ( more so than many many others and are at the envy of the world for this ) and make your country one that you want for yourself and your children.

You are never going to get exactly what you want. We live in a society of mixed religion and customs and beliefs…

Don’t run from the problems, step up and make them right! 🙂
 
PS there is always Iran. I doubt abortion, birth control, stem cell research, etc are available.
 
Come on fellow Catholics!..whatever happened to the “power of prayer”??? Let’s all band together in a powerful prayer chain, remember***…“wherever two or more are gathered in my Name”***…
 
Thank you all for your suggestions. A few things I just wanted to clarify:
  1. I know I’m not going to find the perfect place on Earth. I’m not looking to escape a fight - I’ve been fighting the good fight for a long time. It’s just starting to look as though this particular battleground is lost, so it’s time to move on to the next battleground. I don’t want my tax dollars funding even more immorality than they already were, but our President and “Representatives” have decided that that’s precisely what’s going to happen. They’re going to tax me more and send that money to Planned Parenthood International and researchers who view embryos as tinker toys.
  2. My belief is that this increased “spitting in God’s face” by our government (coupled with the growing public mentality that government should provide everything for them) is going to spell economic (and likely military/international) disaster for this country. Is it unwise to read the writing on the wall and act on it? Is it unwise to take my family and get out of Sodom and Gemorrah? Is it being un-Christian to “build an ark” to carry my family to another land and protect them from the flood?
If it were simply a matter of “fighting the good fight”, yeah, I’d stay and fight. But 1) it’s not looking very winnable right now, and 2) I’ve got a wife and kids that I’m responsible for. The last thing I want is to see them suffer because I chose to stay put while Jerusalem burns and the Temple is destroyed. (Even the early Christians got warning and left before the Romans stepped in to subdue the revolt.)

I know we, as a nation, went through a similar time in the 70s - high taxes, high unemployment, loose morals, gas crisis, inattentive/corrupt government, trouble with terrorists, nuclear enemies, etc. etc. etc. And I know we got out of it (somewhat). But really: how many 2nd chances does one nation get? I know God forgives sinners over and over, but a nation is not made in His image and likeness, and He allowed the nation of His chosen people to be overrun by barbarian conquerers when they turned their back to him. What makes us better than ancient Israel/Judah?

I know life is suffering. I know that sometimes you’ve got to stay and fight. But I know there’s sometimes you’ve got to take a stand by leaving. I believe that time is coming very soon, and I don’t want my family to suffer because I didn’t act prudently. There are times for charging into battle, but there are also times to retreat.

I think the main thing I ask is that you pray for me and my family (and all Christian families in America), that we have hope, but that we don’t have misplaced hope (masked as patriotism) that blinds us to God’s real direction for our lives.
 
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